brideofjc

Well, Roy in many senses you are correct, because the Living Lord God is so multi-faceted that it would be impossible to put HIM in a box. However, it is also black and white and it can be said THUS SAITH THE LORD! :) Like you said, both are correct. In the end when we know HIM as HE knows us, I do not think we will care one way or the other, we will be just too thrilled to be in HIS presence. Blessings

While I have never read those particular books, I would imagine that they were warning folks to stay away, either because" 1. you would clearly see VPW's plagiarisms. 2. you would clearly see VPW's doctrinal errors. I'll leave you with just those two, I'm sure there is more. Good night and God Bless, don't let the bed bugs bite!

Study doesn't necessarily have to connote books, pens and paper, WS, I think the KJV used this word because that is the word that was popular with them at the time. Kind of like 30 years ago, well maybe 40, one would never have thought to find "ain't" in the dictionary, but it is there now by popular usage, even if it still isn't a correct word.

There are many writiings that didn't make the grade as far as being of apostolic authorship etc., dates were wrong, such as letters claiming to have been written by an apostle, but they were penned after the apostle had been martyred. Many such letters or writings are called pseudepigrapha or "false writings"not that they are "false" in every sense of the word, but that the authorship that they are ascribed to is not accurate. The content could be very accurate. I'm including the meaning from the Bible Dictionary concerning this: The word refers to certain noncanonical writings purported to have come from biblical characters, and refers to books of ancient Jewish literature outside the canon and the apocrypha. The writings purport to be the work of ancient patriarchs and prophets, but are, in their present form, mostly productions from about 200 B.C. to A.D. 200. These writings have at times been popular with some branches of Christianity, but by their very nature there is no accepted fixed limit to the number of writings that are called pseudepigrapha, for what one person or group regards as canon another may call pseudepigrapha. Some of the writings originated in Palestine and were written in Hebrew or Aramaic; others originated in North Africa and were written in coptic Greek and Ethiopic. These include legends about biblical characters, hymns, psalms, and apocalypses. Things relating to Enoch, Moses, and Isaiah are prominent. Although not canonized nor accepted as scripture, the pseudepigrapha are useful in showing various concepts and beliefs held by ancient peoples in the Middle East. In many instances latter-day revelation gives the careful student sufficient insight to discern truth from error in the narratives, and demonstrates that there is an occasional glimmer of historical accuracy in those ancient writings. The student may profit from this, always applying the divine injunction that “whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom” (D&C 91: 5). Then the next paste job is concerning the Apocrypha: Secret or hidden. By this word is generally meant those sacred books of the Jewish people which were not included in the Hebrew Bible (see Canon). They are valuable as forming a link connecting the Old and New Testaments, and are regarded in the church as useful reading, although not all the books are of equal value. They are the subject of a revelation recorded in D&C 91, in which it is stated that the contents are mostly correct, but with many interpolations by man.

Hello, Another Dan... I see it as totally the Lord Jesus Christ....albeit, HE is speaking the written word of God, and/or "new" word of God, for everytime HE utters words to us, is it not the VERY WORD OF GOD? Yes, I also believe that the HS working with us leads us to understanding the written Word of God, even as much as this would be also how it was originally inspired, even if the writers didn't comprehend fully that it was the HS leading them.

QUOTE(penworks @ Apr 28 2008, 01:41 PM) One bit of info to add to this thread: In '87 after I'd left HQ and was far far away, I told the leader of the first offshoot that unlike him, I wasn't comfortable with assuming that the keys to research, etc. that VP taught were right. For instance, I wondered what the word "scripture" really referred to in that verse that says all scripture is given by inspiration of God, etc. I told him that as far as I knew, the cannon of the Bible wasn't established at the time that verse was written so how could "scripture" in that verse refer to the whole Bible as we have it today? He said he didn't have time to do all that research... That's one reason why I had a problem with "offshoots." So I went to college, read lots of books, and got a degree in English. brideofjc The Greek word simply means "writings" which would include OT and the new forming NT, even though they weren't calling it that yet. penworks: That's my point. There was no NT yet. There was no Bible yet. Didn't VPW teach that this word "scripture" referred to the Bible? Seems to me his stance was that the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation was what the word "scripture" referred to here. Maybe I'm wrong...but I think he got this idea from another fundamentalist... While there wasn't any NT (as we call it), there was still a BIBLE (Grk=biblios=book/scroll), which was the only Bible that they had, i.e. the OT (which they didn't call it that) but they would have referred to it as the TORAH. Many of the LETTERS are what is called INCIDENTAL LETTERS, meaning an INCIDENT happened in a church that required a letter from an apostle to help straighten out the situation. But God's Word is still God's Word and the major part of the NT are quotes, allusions or paraphrases of the OT. Don't tell any fundys about this however, it may get you shot. Rhino: about gematria or something. It was where the letters had numeric values, and you could add the numbers up to come up with totals that supposedly had significance. But they used the Greek, while twi had been teaching the originals were in Aramaic. I suppose one could say "all scripture" just meant all scripture, whether it had been written yet or not. But how it was determined to include some "scripture" and not other "writings" is not clear. The Gematria is in Hebrew and this was also their numerical system as well. The reason (I believe) is that at first the apostle's wouldn't have dared in their own minds equated their little letters to the same magnitude of the Torah. It wasn't until 50 A.D. and after when the original apostles were beginning to age and of course some had already been martyred that they began to realize that they needed to write it down in order to preserve what the Lord Jesus had said and done. By the time that Paul is in prison for the last time, he is then writing that they should bring the SCROLLS and it is at this time that people began to see the need for conservation of these precious documents and the need to adopt the same scribal efforts that they gave to the preservation of the Torah. Waysider: Wesley Swift (1913-1970) is considered by the FBI to have been the single most significant figure in the early years of the Christian Identity movement. Swift helped popularize a new element: the "two-seed" (or "seedliner") theory, which holds that Eve was seduced by the Serpent, conceived Cain as a result, and that modern Jews are actually descended from Cain. Except you have a problem with that theory in that the Holy Seed would have been through Seth, since Abel was murdered and Cain disallowed, therefore, most likely, Noah was a direct descendant whose bloodline was pure and not mixed and he and his family were the only ones saved. NIS: What is the bible today may not be all the scripture that was God breathed...some books, parts, words may have been added, or left out completely. When the Canon was being analyzed and formed one of the major attributes that was considered for eligibility into the canon was apostolic authority. See the link below, Warfield believes that the apostles would have thought of their writings on the same par as the Torah, but I do not, simply because most of these men were illiterate fishermen. Many of the books were penned by an emanuensis, and I do not believe at the first they would have equated it with equal worth. I do believe as I wrote above that it came to be thought of in that way, but much later. http://www.reformed.org/master/index.html?...ield_canon.html The Greek word Hagiographa is what would be used to describe Holy Writings, and even though 2 Tim 3:16 lists the Greek word as "Grapha" yet nonetheless is was given by the inspiration of the One True God, and of course I know that you all remember what that word is.....Theopneustos!

The Greek word simply means "writings" which would include OT and the new forming NT, even though they weren't calling it that yet.

Since a dead man can't be tried any longer here on this earth, His judge awaits him in the heavenly courts. I do not envy him at all.

I remember one teaching he did about the Phillistines receiving EMERODS from the Lord Most High because they had dared to touch the ARK and so they got to have their very own pain in the azz, and how the Victoid hooted and made a big to do about that very subject.

He also did that with David's first wife as well.... 2 Sam 6:21-23 First Michal despised him in her heart and then she rebuked him for dancing naked and letting servant girls see the king. The text states simply that David said that the servant girls would honor him (i.e. lie with him naked and have sex) but in contrast David wouldn't have sex with Michal anymore after that day. Then in v 23 the text simply states that Michal had no children by David until the day of her death. It used to really bug me that VPW always taught that GOD HAD STRICKEN HER BARREN because she DESPISED THE KING! When in reality it was simply a matter of not having sex with your husband anymore. Yup that would tend to make you barren, maybe not physically barren as it being something wrong with Michal, but barren nevertheless. I never really thought about this until now, but it probably is a sure bet that since he was so fond of molesting women and even drugging them to get them into bed with him, that deep down he was a misogynist. Many abusers who are super critical are really attempting to cover up the truth that they really hate women. Perhaps he did. That's why rape is a hate crime.

Hi Jeff, I guess in the first place which bible version are you reading? KJV? Uhmmmm.....KJV is notorious for sugar coating the VERY RAW HEBREW When it says that Abishag was KEEPING HIM WARM.....it was more than snuggling or playing footsies. More like attempting to get David's blood racing.....Uhmmmm......

I do not believe VP ever directly said it of himself, I remember hearing him teach on this subject, and it was more the way he held himself and strutted himself on the stage and as he would look at the audience. For example, one time, after saying that all the women belonged to the King, etc. he raised his eyebrows and said something like 'Oh, Ho!" At least with me, it was more the implications and allusions he made to it that caused one to draw these conclusions. Others may have heard it directly, but my hearing of it was an allusion.

Yes, in all seriousness, He did. What was on God's heart was that HE wanted them to choose HIM as their eternal KING. This is really scary, Waysider.... FUN spelled backwards is NUF!

ROFL!!!! Yeah, who wants those pesky aliens controlling our thoughts! OM gosh durn..... Ya don't think, do ya....? T he W ay I nter G alactic

Yeah, you know, hit the wrong key on the pc, hit a 1 instead of the real 4. If you really are just 18, geez louise, you should be Pope by the time you're 38. Yes, you do sound far older than your years, too much wisdom packed in there, which took most of us out here 20-30 years to get to this place. Yeah, perhaps you are only 18...a bad keystroke is from the actual TYPING era on TYPEWRITERS, and everytime you moved your finger, it was counted as a keystroke! Now, I'm dating myself.

Sounds more like you're 48 and instead of a bad brushstroke, you had a bad keystroke! The most fundamental thing that every Christian should do is to read outside of your comfort zone, this will pique your curiosity and challenge your faith tenets and you will soon find out how much you really know about your own faith. However, one thing to always remember...I know it is common sense, but it's amazing how many people either overlook or forget it, is that just because some author put it in a book, doesn't mean it is God's truth. Only the Bible has that audition down pat.

I know I was truly blessed, when I got invited to lunch at this lady's home and all her condiments were institution size jars and I asked her why and she was the one who clued me into the store and that was about 10+ years ago. Just google WHOLESALE FOOD DISTRIBUTORS for your state and see what comes up. Make some calls and see if they have such a store, or if not, perhaps they know of one.

and a one--two Oh, Henry the VIII, I am, I am Henry the VIII, I am, I am errrr...scuse me....I just couldn't resist.....saw the title to this thread.... read Notawayfer's post and POOF immediately saw Patrick Swayze singing this song in "Ghost!" and a one--two buckle my shoe.... Oh, wrong board....

Is that because they might have HUNG out in the same dark places?

What a hoot! You too?

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Dylan Thomas

CLICK!