rascal

Yeah but none of that really matters groucho because he markets scriptures...bless his heart. Whatever would God do without men like this to move his word???

You are right. I have friends that are very knowledgeable about history and pointed out the similarities in nazi Germany`s manipulation of people. The we verses them, the different levels of superiority, the pomp and parade, fake feel good stuff.... The necessity to do unpleasant things for the greater good. It turns out that they all followed a lunatic.

Dot, I understand. Thank you for providing this information.

Oh and BTW Oldies, really good to see you again, you were missed. :)

or choses to ignore...

Oldies, You mischaracterized that section in galatians entirely. It didn`t say *all human beings are of the flesh* That is a lie. It says that Those who commit the acts that wierwille did are *of the flesh* and *have no inheritance in the kingdom of God*.. It said those that manifested the fruit of the spirit...were OF the spirit. Two different types of human kind, to be identified by their actions or *fruit* You were taught to ignore the evidence of the fruit that Jesus Christ himself said would dentify us to one another by a man who didn`t want his fruit examined too darned carefully. His doctrines, the ones you keep quoting from consistantly steer people away from the scriptures that would have clearly identified him as the imposter that he was. False prophets are clever, else nobody would fall for their counterfit doctrine.

Also, the people of the scriptures that are routinely trotted out as being *sinners* and therefor old vp wasn`t so bad after all....were without exception, body and soul man as we understand it. Judeans before the new birth was available, not Christain. I would certainly expect someone who claimed to be Christian, an adopted son with access to God to behave much better than a judean servant of body and soul. The thing about wierwille and his doctrines is that he made it ok to ignore everything that it means to be a Christian. I think that what he taught was a counterfit form, if we are to believe the scriptures definitions.

Well, now if we believe galatians, people who did the things vpw did are *of the flesh* and will have *no inheritance in the kingdom of God* Does not seem to be contingent on what they taught or believe...shrug but hey, that is just what the scriptures say....don`t let that interfere with what you want to think. Whether *of the spirit* and of the *flesh* are synonimous with born again or not, I don`t know. Being of the *flesh* would certainly preclude them from being a minister or christian leader in any form.

TBone, after all......we musn`t let scriptures interfere with our preconcieved notions of what we would LIKE for them to mean. There was an old sign that used to hang on the wall in our cabin.... *My mind is made up...Don`t confuse me with the facts* I guess it doesn`t matter what the scriptures say about false prophets, wolves in sheep`s clothing and the evidence of fruit, the standards of a christian much less a leaders....shrug.

Wait...I get it....more bells, whistles, and sirens!!!!! Even if OUR kindness was genuine, it still WAS a part of the *con* because unbeknownst to us, it was our decency that allowed the evil to masquerade as a Christian ministry. :blink:

I guess I wasn`t thinking of kindness in them, the inner sanctum per se.... I guess I was thinking more of myself and people that I knew on the local level. I guess that I was thinking that we were the decent people that the evil hid behind....shrug. I wasn`t denying anything that you were saying Dot, thank you for giving me the final piece of the puzzle that I needed to understand.

I don`t believe that genuine Christians could act this way. I think that people believed that their knowledge and formulas would make them spiritual..ie Christian. Being *of the spirit* isn`t a way you act, it is something that you are inside. The kindness exhibited by these type of folks had strings attached, therefor it wasn`t genuine. The kindness of many of the rank and file believer was many times came from genuine caring, selfless motives, these folks were those that were genuinely *of the spirit* I think it is the difference between being *of the flesh* or *of the spirit*

Wow WHAT a testimony to your father! How fortunate for all of you that he was so strong. You can bet the pressure to join would have been intollerable, the pain of being ostracised deep. It would have been the most difficult thing in the world to not give in to the pressure to follow loved ones. What a great man, hat`s off to your father!!

I SAW that one too Belle! It is a whole Judean culture supposedly begun when the son of Soloman and a Ethiopian Queen established it. They have a very fascinating story and traditions. Supposedly the ark is there. Sure wish that we could take a look in that church.

eh? :blink:

OOOH Yeah, Belle, you bring to mind one of my favorites. *Wives submit to/obey your husbands* You are to have no thoughts contrary, raise no objection, no matter how difficult, demeaning their requirements, no matter how outragious the actions. Whether their rediculous treatment of those under their rule, be due to alcohol abuse, mental instability, or just plain stupidity. The wife and children have no access to God accept through the husband/father/head of the household. To not submit, would be to leave the protection of God.

more and more come to mind... *A prophet is not without honor* ...ie your family will drag you off the word with their lack of spirituality... *your area isn`t spiritual enough*..ie move away from any and all ties that might provide you with support and balance so that you become entirely dependant on twi as your source for companionship, information, and moral support. *worldly or carnal knowledge is not only unneccessary* ie.... it will be at odds with your spiritual knowledge...ie don`t go to college, cause then your resources, efforts and allegiance will go to someone OTHER than twi. *shake the dust off of your feet*...ie if somebody. anybody whether they be life long friend, parent, child, spouse even....who does not accept the word as taught per twi, one must drop kick them out of your life, as they are a worthless distraction.

Selective teachings...hmmm *first breath* *children in the womb are parasites* *children can open the doors for devil spirits to incapacitate an entire family* These teachings ensured that folks didn`t back out of the programs, made sure that the parents weren`t distracted by the kiddoes needs.... and there was very little living *proof* of the moggy`s little indiscretions. Without children, we were able to devote our entire attention to the ministry and support of our leaders.

Yeah, twi taught birth control, it was called *abortion* for those nasty little inconveniences that could pop up from time to time and interrupt or distract one from their spiritual duty. How superior to the churches. Another selective teaching....grow spiritually put your life on the line, enroll in the corpes...go wow... What they DIDN`T tell you in these teachings of how necessary these programs were for your spiritual growth was that to do so would be the equivalent of a *vow* to God, the breaking of which would mean sure spiritual destruction. One found out only after making the commitment what the further ramifications of THAT doctrine was.

AMEN!

Hellooo?? lol Nope, but he DID have teachings about all of the women in the kingdom belonging to the king...that adultery was ok for David, it was killing the husband that was a problem..ayup He DID teach that todays mogs were on par with old testament kings.... He DID teach that all parts of the body were equal... He DID teach that mogs were to be obeyed.... He DID teach ll things are lawfull to them which are in Christ.. ie we can all screw like bunnies, drink our selves stupid, destroy a brother or sister in Christ and suffer no consequences. We just weren`t spiritual enough to handle it, which was why we weren`t adept at picking up the more subtle aspects of these *freedoms in Christ*

.......and that has WHAT to do with twi selective teachings? What does what ever beef you have with the catholic church have to do with twi being wrong.... I dunno, some how I expect a teacher of the scriptures to be doing it for a more noble reason that trying to part me from my money or a sales comission :blink: The catholic church does it...salesmen do it so it isn`t so bad that twi does it?

Ex, you said something very good, of course. Somebodies *happy* time at twi occured while somebody elsewhere was being slaughtered. Potato, I think that is the only thing of value I bring away from my twi experience, a super high tuned bull sheet o meter. I don`t have any respect for so called *leaders*. I feel like a junk yard dog. They have been mistreated so repeatedly, that their hackles can raise and fangs are bared at the slightest provocation. They are ferociously protective of what they consider *theirs*.

Oh my gosh Dot... Thank you for that peak into the inner workings of twi. I had heard rumors of drugs, rumors of sex, I guess in my mind I wanted to still believe it was isolated instances....sigh The way you describe the hierchy, the yes men, the inner sanctum, who was able to spiritually *handle* this stuff. Gosh, and we stupid leaves believed that the purity of their hearts and motives matched our own. The counterfit is so cunning.

Cool, I have to say that we were vulnerable. Coming from a broken home, with a harried mother who couldn`t take care of us... The lure of having a NEW family, a family of God. Brothers and sisters to fight for and along side of you in the great spiritual battle... How noble, How noble to be on a mission for God. We were needed, we were loved, we were spiritual warriors that were bringing light to the world. Oh my God how irrisistable to a love starved teenager. Once in that mind set, twi was the only place to be, no matter how bad it got. Who would want to go back to being a spiritual *empty* a bump on the log? For many of us, twi was the first place we ever felt loved or of value. This was exploited.