rascal

Exhortation, edification and comfort...hmmm was THAT what the spiders coming outta the nose and dead babies that KAG prophesied was all about??? Du`oh, I guess I am just not spiritual enough to understand it all.

Oh great one, could you condescend to read for one who is most unworthy? I will purchase your books and tapes in attempts to become more deserving. I need the guidance from your devine council.

No glee here, simply a confirmation that concerns were valid. John Lynn still excuses the prophesies and his part in the destruction of other people.... I don`t see him honest yet, just still frantically trying to re wrap his doctrin/ministry package to make it platable. A couragious man would acknowledge that the dream prophesy/momentus was crap, rather than blame it all on a few peoples misapplication of supposedly otherwise sound practice... A couragious man would be able to set aside his *package* after seeing the destruction wrought and start all over again trusting that God could build a new and solid foundation, rather than the previous shifting sand. It still seems to be all about preserving his *package* shrug Edited to add: Oh and I am still non plussed that WE are unworthy of dialogue. We are people, regardless of our internet handles, and are of value. Geeze .... Do you not think that God knows who/what rascal is? What her heart is? Let him be the judge of whether or not I am worthy, or whether my input is of value, not you...alright Mr. Lynn? Maybe a dissenting opinion would be of value rather than someone who tells you simply what YOU believe that you would like to hear. That crap about not talking to anonymous internet users is just a convenient excuse to not have to get honest with yourself or others...shrug.

Apostle Dr. Wierrwille You know that vp`s doctorate was fake....scriptures declare that he was a fake as far as apostleship...and ck even spelled WIERWILLE wrong lmao. CK, you might want to seriously consider what else concerning this man and his doctrines that you might be mistaken about.

Thanks HCW. your eye witness and first hand accounts explain much. Thank you for filling in the missing puzzle pieces. Thank you for your candor. It is damned tough to realise that things were not as we percieved, what we ferociously fought for and defended.

Ditto what Krys said. T&O that certainly gives one something to consider.

Sunesis, I was nausiated by the cruel accusations in those letter. It is very scary to read of people seeing this stuff, much less believing it true of a sister. I can only imagine how devistated the falsely accused woman must have felt, how crushing to have this believed of ones self by their spouse and ministers and bretheren. Maybe I am reading my own feelings into it, having once been accused by a simple tc`s wife...I seriously wanted to kill myself..... I can only imagine the hell visited upon this woman. I have to wonder how many others have been treated this way? They are the ones that need our prayers. It was awfull that this happened to people under the guise of a Christian ministry. Who can one turn to if they believe that God spoke through these people?? Where can they turn when the people of the ministry all view them as evil? This stuff makes my skin crawl.

CK, can`t HANDLE the truth. That is why he must savage the people with eye witness accounts of vpw`s debauchery and unfitness as a minister.

Belle, I understood what you meant and it was really sweet. I feel the same way. There are a lot of folks who minister 24/7 without the recognition of a ministry or title or name tag or pay check. It was meant more as a tribute to some, than a slam to others. Capt. Crunch, thanks for bringing this into the open. There are a lot of folks that need to know how things are run in order to make appropriate choices. Jeff, you were always a stand up guy. Your candor here is really appreciated. Your good name and reputation goes far in lending legitimacy to what folks in a group are doing. I know that it is tough when you have worked hard with a group. I hope that you are right, that the folks in ces can get on the right track. I hope that it isn`t like in twi when the good men stood up and tried to change course, they were ignored and thrown out and twi went on, business as usual on the backs of the hard working and sincere folks who don`t know what is going on in the top circle.

Agreed Coolwaters. Shaz, that echoed my view precisely, take care of my little slice of the world.

Waysider, you are so funny.

HCW, Thank you for sharing that, for supplying a few more pieces of the puzzle. It certainly helps in understanding what happened to us and why so much confusion. *suspended disbelief* about says it all....wow

NOBODY had insurance when I was in. It was a sure sign of unbelief, negative believing. We were told that was an invitation for satan to attack pure and simple. I don`t know anybody who even dared to have insurance.

Lol, wasn`t that something we were supposed to have learned (according to the rumors) in twi?? Damn, I want my money back ...lol Seriously though, I am adept at fire arms safety, but in our state if you want a carry permit, you have to go through a state certified program....shrug I am going to keep my buddy company really, she didn`t want to go alone. On a humorous (or would it be mortifying) side note...I quit carrying almost 15 yrs ago when my 3 yr old son spotted my pistol in it`s secret safety compartment in my purse when I was digging into my secret stash for money for the offering at church. He shouted out in the quiet,*MOM...theres a GUN IN YOUR PURSE*!!!!! OMG if you couldn`t hear a pin drop before, you sure could after...I couldn`t shut the kid up ...but MOM....MoOMMOOOM why you got a gun in your purse???? Moooom......in the bellow only an excited 3 yr old can manage. I kept clapping my hand over his mouth, but NOTHING was going to deter his interest or shut him up....lol Needless to say, I hustled all of the kids out as quickly as I could at the end of services. No doubt there were some fervent prayers in the sanctuary that day, as we were very new to the neighborhood and church...hee hee

It is very hard to come to grips with being wrong. I guess if we can vindicate, or somehow make vpw all right, then we personally aren`t quite as wrong, maybe don`t feel so foolish for being tricked. In condemning vpw, we condemn oursleves, our beliefs and our perception of our value ...basically our entire lives of the past 30 years to the toilet. It is damned hard to realise that everything we have been taught must be re evaluated, that our core truths are not necessarily truths. Much easier to vindicate vp and place value in his group then to feel the shame of being dooped by a false prophet.

Do you want to know how much vpw and twi leaders believed in the power of prayers and healing??????? Not too darned much because nobody was notified of his illness. A couple of days before his death we were told there were some opportunities that we could pray if we wanted. Nothing major, all pretty low key. My goodness, why not enact 24 hour of prayer internationally? You would have thought that they would have considered the heart felt earnest prayers of tens of thousands of believers without ceasing, as a good thing. They obviously didn`t believe that there was any power in prayer, or that it would do any good, or in healing, or we would have been asked to pray, rather than letting vp slip away unnoticed and then making up a lie why he died, and finding a way to pin the responsibility of his death on others.... I always wondered if they believed what they taught us, or it was just the bait on the hook.

It comes back guys, the neat thing is we honestly savor and enjoy our activities all the more so because of the years of denial and lack. We relish each accomplishment much more than the average person who has never suffered privation. I have immersed myself in so many fun activities in search of my true self...I was so young when I entered twi, I didn`t have a real identity. Theatre, bowling leagues, trail riding, karate, whatever strikes my fancy. Everything seems to contribute pieces of the person that I am developing into. Next weekend it is gun safety, in Jan/feb it will be stained glass classes. In April karate tournaments.

Brilliant Goey! Scripture is no replacement or substitute for Jesus Christ!!!! *Ever searching but never coming unto a knowledge of the truth* comes to mind This is what was wrong with life in twi.

My apologies ck, I stand corrected. It appears that CK is NOT a teenager, just a very immature young adult. I suppose that this is an example of where adherence to the dogma taught by vpw will take one. Your doctrine nurtures the hatred that blinds you, making it seem acceptable, even justified :(

Well, we faced this issue when leaving twi. I lived in absolute terror, convinced that to not tithe was to assigne a death sentance to our family. I just knew that my husbands stubborness was going to cost us dearly, but being the wife, I had no say so...I was so bitter about what he was doing to our family. Well, the time went by, the blessings continued, doors opened, we didn`t seem to be affected in anyway. What we DID do, was to give to other people. whether not charging for home repairs, giving to a family in need, taking care of our elderly neighbors. Sometimes it was monetary, but more times it was in service. The blessings seem to flow continuously, us to our neighbors, the neighbors to others, yet others to us.... It was like seeing that God had no hands but our hands...you know, we all took care of each other, yet knew that it was God at work within us... I saw the beauty of giving verses the law of tithing. Oh and in 15 years since not tithing, nobody died....none of the promised disasters befell us for not officially tithing, and contrary to what we were taught the blessings increased. I can only surmise that twi`s understanding of the tithe was in error.

Mark, ck has had one on one conversations with several first hand eye witnesses to viscious cruelty on numerous occasions in chat. I was there, I saw it....He was treated with kindness and respect. His was allowed to ask his at times insensative questions, he was patiently given truthfull answeres by no less than three different posters who had seen the worst side of twi. He then posted lies in the forums about the people who treated him kindly, he posted lies about the treatment he recieved, he posted lies about people who were not even present. CK is not here to learn or interact or help, he wants to *raise hell* HIS words... He cares nothing for the hearts that he stomps on, he enjoys being cruel. He has been treated with kindness and patience repeatedly to no avail. He has proven repeatedly that he is here to hurt, he enjoys what he does, he glories in making a stink, though he is so clumsy and comical in his attempts, nobody really takes him seriously. He is nothing more than an immature kid that is trying to be a tough guy bully...shrug Oh yeah, and he comes in here masquerading as a parent who has been in twi to add legitimacy to his position. He doesn`t want your defense nor your kindness Mark.

It was more than a few loose cannons. It started at the very top with VPW and was continued with LCM. Maybe the loose cannons in twi were the few that didn`t sodomize the followers either mentally, physically or spiritually.

*produce evil images of twi*??? Um, I believe the word *witnessed* would be more apropriate :(

Pretty strange way to interpret that post .

Well to be completely fair, it isn`t as obscene as it first appears on the surface. Keep in mind, the setting of this game is after the rapture when everyone has finally made their choice whether to be Christian or serve the anti Christ, and the battle is all about the destruction of any who won`t take the mark of the beast. All headed by the global leader who has taken over the un and dissolved individual countries and traditional boundaries. Kind of have to read the series to understand. But *kill the unbeliever* in todays setting is not what it is condoning or about. Up to this point in the story the Christians have been battling to get the message of God out to as many souls (not killing) as is possible before the final battle.