rascal

OOPS that was John Juedes...I am sorry. I will edit immediately. Messiah 777 I think is what it is called.

John:1, I guess that last paragragh of your sounded pretty harsh and back biting all by itself. Every bit as judgemental as the gs people that you critisize might appear to you. *Good loving people that you have lumped into what you believe is wrong* is that not what you have done? How much more effective if you can make your otherwise very good point without being insulting and demeaning to *very loving people*?(granted a skill that I have yet to master :) ) You want stories of miracles and support? Then TELL them instead of complaining because nobody is doing what you want them to. Don`t be mad because someone else fails to perform as you deem appropriate...Shoot...speak up as to your experiences and perceptions with cff...I will speak as to mine...together maybe we will grow in the accuracy our understanding... ok? Your input is valuable, your understanding and areas of strength will add to our over all understanding and flavor here. :) (Oh, and just for your information, there have been many requests for prayer and stories of deliverance, rejoicing in blessings recieved. Maybe you just don`t know where to look. Try reading *the Joey is 7 thread* and others in the prayer forums.) I guess that you holding your nose and self rightiously proclaiming our over all stenche here, would not inspire my confidence in your ability to clearly understand the hearts of so many people here, nor inspire me to trust any group that you want to represent. Soot show us girl, be a representative of the good that your group has to offer, demonstrate by the fruit in your life/writing that the doctrine that you chose to believe is Godly. Don`t be afraid to be questioned, don`t be afraid to examine yourself..... To simply point your finger and pronounce us all a bunch of doody heads, that merely confirms the worst that people who have not participated, believe about off shoots. :blink: Edited: It was John Juedes, NOT John Shroyer who does the messiah777 site. Great information for breaking free of way brain. Those folks have my respect.

I have only run into one innie since leaving. He was my husbands best friend in Kansas. He and his wife were in our wedding party. We had not spoken since leaving 15 years ago and then we were in another state 1000 miles away. My husband ran into this man, his former best friend in a huge store in a city of over 350,000 people, in a state that neither one had ever known the other to be in, nor either one resided in. Now the rational mind would consider the fact that this was far to unlikely to be simply circumstantial. This poor fellow after 15 years meeting an old friend in a strange city, could not make the time away from the repairs he was doing for family members for a week or two for lunch or to visit our home, meet our children, or interact with us in any way. There was no offeres of exchanging addresses or telephone numbers. We were strictly taboo, for no other reason than the fact that we no longer were affiliated with twi. To me, it seemed heartbreakingly sad that he wasn`t allowed to feel or act as one normally would when discovering a long thought to be forever lost friend. I know that it couldn`t have been coincidence, I wish that I had the words when my spouse called me from the store to talk with the man, that I had some sort of brilliant words to offer. I can only hope that what was discussed made an impression.

Gosh I didn`t think about that WB, I think that is probably the nicest thing that anyone has ever said about me. Good for you sky rider, you may very well have planted the seeds that later germinated. That is SO cool.

Cause you got em Belle! What is there to say? The *w* word? Don`t hold your breath.

Too funny WB! I think that the wrong Dr.s office was best, I couldn`t top that lol. OMG, I think it might have been a hoot to attend a fellowship while not under the influence of their teachings. It sounds like they aren`t terrified of outies any more if she felt that she could invite you back. There was a time that any good innie would have fled in terror once they realised ....ulp you had forsaken God and his ministry.... Maybe you could reverse witness you know? I had a dream about that once....I found myself on the wow field ...I knew that twi was wrong but couldn`t break my commitment. God came to me in the dream and said...*yes but you will be witnessing for ME now* The whole rest of the dream I was a double agent for God witnessing to wow bros and people about how evil twi doctrine was....lol I am such a nut. It might be be fun in real life.

I missed THAT one Raf, glad that you repeated it. Pretty clever :D

Linda, I was the one that said that he owed me/us an apology, but you need to have read it in context. It was said in reply to being needled as too chicken to call him. I understand about insulting and mudslinging, but I am unsure that is what is going on, at least it wasn`t in the quote that you sighted. He has repeatedly insulted the internet users and any exway that don`t see things his way. As I understand what folks are saying, his allowing his wife to be savaged, his continued promotion of prophesy, his insulting behavior and derogatory attitude is to be given a free pass, because after all he might get his feelings hurt if he read what people honestly thought.... By all means, lets all be nice and pretend that his actions, or lack there of simply aren`t offensive. Gosh, maybe he NEEDS someone to be honest with him for a change, rather than just maintaining communication with people who are as beguiled by these practices as he, Folks who simply tell him only that which he wishes to hear. How is he ever going to pull his head out of that dark place and be free himself if nobody dares be honest with him...if folks just say the stuff that confirms and further entrenches him in his beliefs? Sometimes, brutal as it is, honesty is the most decent thing that you can do for a person.

Maybe vpw was not the man that you thought he was trumpeter. Maybe if you knew what he had done to your brothers and sisters in Christ you wouldn`t hold such respect/ Maybe :(

Sorry Sprawled out, I wasn`t really going for intentionally nasty, just trying to make a point using mild cynicism (I don`t do that very well I guess) It would be hard for me to read these things about a buddy. My point should have been that John could benefit from interaction with real people with great insight that could offer him more than just the folks who have been programed through the same teachings, books programs and various materials to tell him that which he wishes to hear....shrug. Instead as I read his letter, we here are still *THOSE* people, you know the ones who don`t appreciate the value of the *package* because of our lack of spirituality or understanding or whatever. It still seems to me to be a we/they thing in his mind.

.....oh and btw WE aren`t selling anything either. Feel free to enjoy the benefits of our collective wisdom free of charge.....courtesy of Pawtucket

Snort, I am real enough, I cannot help that his perception of people or his biblical responsibility has apparently been scewed by years of investment in questionable religious practices...shrug. He owes all of greasespot an apology. The ball is in his court. Given his conspicous absence, I can only conclude that it must be he who is afraid. <_<

John Lynn has offended ME in his repeated insults in interviews and letters. He called internet forum users (that`s you n me folks) whiners. Wasn`t he the one who coined the phrase perpetual victims....etc. He told us before that we...our thoughts, our impressions, our insight are not worth the time for him to read or consider responding to.... He was the one who proclaimed that we must *get over it* thus eliminating his need and the other leaders in twi make apology or restitution for the evil that they inflicted. As far as *I* am concerned he owes US a heartfelt apology, and I`ll be damned if I will call HIM up to get it. He knows where we are, and if he ever get`s to the point where he is humble enough to recognise his error and calloused behavior, I`ll assume that he will be right here with an sincere apology for being such a butt head. Most of us will probably then forgive him, and welcome him to journey with us towards truth, growth and healing. Right now it appears to be sop of cya . His *package* blinds him to truth and his responsibility. In regards to the final paragragh of John`s letter...... We are here John, you may feel free to contact us. We will communicate with you, we will dialogue with you. We do not know you, but we still have the capacity love and care about you. Feel free to contact us here at greasepot, God bless you, your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Agreed WB, John Lynn has never had the courage to dialogue with any other than those who agree with him. He insults and dismisses real live flesh and blood people whom all have valid pov, salient advice and valuable perception to offer. He completely eliminates the need to consider the fact that he was dead wrong by dismissing us as anonymous internet folks. He refuses to dialogue with anyone who doesn`t buy into his *package* Number one, we are as valued to God as he, whether his reverend self recognises our names or not. Number two, He will never be able to fix what is wrong if he will only talk with the people who tell him what he wants to hear, how he wants to hear it, when he thinks he wants to hear it. When you believe that you are right, you just wont make the changes necessary. It is called arrogance....shrug

((((cool chef)))) I am sorry. I hope that someday, somewhere some how there is to be a reconing for people that did these things under the guise of being Godly men.

Lol WB, I wish we could all be as *on the word* as you.

Wow Mr. Hamm, what a thought provoking analogy. How appropriate. This would explain much of what happens at greasespot whenever we get close to abuse issues. It explains the venom and anger that is poured out at the posters, who have done nothing.... The people who are using/hurting folks are portrayed as heros and saints and given a free pass yet again...go figure. Great insight Mr. Hamm

i john, that is great advice. Maybe it will help someone. Maybe others here have practical advice that will aid others whom maybe unable to accept your recomendation. Most here have much to offer in the way of recognising and addressing spiritual abuse/false prophet issues. We have all been there and done that, we all have valuable points of insight to offer. To lable those as *miserable comforters* is to dismiss folks and their insight as unimportant. Just because we don`t always understand a persons pov doesn`t mean that it is without merit.

Do it! You lay out the parameters, and I will try to follow. You never know untill you try, and it might make a huge difference to someone.

I can only add that the gravy changes with the flavor of sausage used (I like mild) and a cup of sour cream added while thickening really makes it zing.

Good points Abby. Hi Justapassingthrough, my name is Cathy, Welcome to grease spot. I am sorry that you are hurting or maybe even scared because of the turmoil that is being experienced in your ministry. Please understand that we are not the villains and evil doers that you may have been led to believe, nor are we worthy of your scorn and condemnation. We are you.

Not pulled into a van, no but some of our sisters were drugged and pulled into vpw`s motor coach and raped by him.... I am sorry that the reality of our abuse and the horror of what we were subjected to in twi, are at such odds with your fantasy of what you would like to believe vpw and twi were all about.

Amen tbfg.... I knew a man like that, I call him the REAL deal. His life showed me what it was to be a genuine Christian, verses the counterfits that I had come to know. The theme at his funeral was his favorite saying in life...*My grace is sufficient for thee*

*they will never figure this out because they do not have Christ at their head* Well said sunesis. As was true in twi as well, which is why it all went so wrong I think. All of the research and knowledge and accuracy cannot take his place or make one a genuine Christian.

Wow, now THAT is profound Sushi :blink: