rascal

I guess it all in ones perspective.....if one ignores what happened, if one buries the past, I think that leaves a lot of unresolved issues...If one does not realise that they have been taught wrongly, that their thought patterns aquired in twi are unhealthy, that their expectations based on their belief system are unrealistic..if one does not come to gripe with the source of the information...then one continues to believe that they are right and do not recognise the need to change. It`s called denial.

Wrong thread.

Weren`t all of the hard hearted things that Jesus was ever quoted as saying directed at the pharicees and saducees that hurt God`s people, the money changers who made money off of God`s people??? I think that you are right Abi, He was compassionate and kind to most everybody else...

I`ll tell you what, as far as the churches...most that I have attended no matter WHAT their doctrine seemed to understand the greatest law...which is love... All of that knowledge aquired in twi was a tinkling cymble...what the hell good did it do anybody without agape? Give me the church that understands what Jesus said were the greatest 2 commandments over puffed up knowledge ANY day. You see how spiritual alla that bible study and scriptural knowledge of obscure orientalisms made old vp ...NOT!!.....The guy never understood the love of God...

I`ll pray for you brother :)

It was in 79

You very well could be right waterbuffalo....her pm`s accusations were certainly as vile as his...she called me all the same names...it is either that or she is coached to the point where she hasn`t an original thought to call her own....shrug Ham...you are absolutely right...LOOK at what this guy is willing to do to others in order to maintain their twi aquired belief system...(I refuse to call it Christian) If THIS isn`t a sterling example of needing for twi to be good in order to live with ones self....I don`t know what is.

Welcome (((man))) (that is a cyber hug) I am so sorry that your marriage suffered. Know this....that contrary to twi`s threats.....God never left or forsook us after we left twi. I have been out for almost 15 years....My family is healthy, our lives prosperous in a way that I never dreamed of in twi. When I left...it was like I took my foot off of the hose of God`s blessings... It is tough, there is a lot of readjustments to make...but all in all life is very good.

Don`t think that it hasn`t been noticed, the challenge has always to keep the topic on track whenever the topic of abuse was being discussed...the only difference here and now is that you have been unable to rally your usual cohorts to help you gang bang the peaple trying to tell the story. You finally had to dig up your wife to lend a little support to your crappy agenda. The thing is john...you labled the people in this forum as emotionally out of control women and stooges....again...that is NOT how a genuine christian treats his brothers and sisters in christ.

I`ll tell you what it may not have been YOUR daughter...but they were certainly dearly beloved children of God......GOD`s kids that it happened to, time and again....and fortunately HE doesn`t minimalise the outrage and evil perpetrated against one of HIS daughters by an evil sob in HIS name. I think that you guys are heartless and have no compassion for what was endured by your sisters and brothers. You want simply to defend the evil perpetrator. That is disturbing.

You know, I have always wondered if it was the teen aged boys that wierwille had used and tossed away like so much garbage if the outrage would finally hit. But because it was young girls that were drugged and raped...coerced and intimidated......it is somehow in some folks minds dismissed as no big deal.

..and THERE we come to the source of it all. John`s well documented hatred of women. For 7 years it never has been about vpw and what he did....or doctrine or a search for the truth.....that has been the driving force...that has irritated you so ... and engendered such hatefullness on your part.......it is because WOMEN are telling about what this pervert did to them. You saw a chance to bash women ....and availed yourself....(I think that this is one of the rare moments that you have actually been candid here) As far as shaking things up??? Buddy don`t kid yourself....all you have been doing is showing what a hatefull little arse you can be at times.... *Emotionally out of control women* It drives you bonkers that we are not UNDER someones control...that we can no longer be intimidated into silence. Further more...let us be absolutely crystal clear in precisely what I personally telling YOU, RATHER than you telling me what I am saying to you..... RATHER than your self agrandizing notions of what you wish every body believed.... Here it is ....what *I* am saying pure and simple..... is that A GENUINE Christian would NEVER treat his brothers and sisters in Christ the way you do here. The proof is always in the fruit buddy. It IS however, standard mo, and not unsurprising of the thousands of pseudo christians that twi turned out who in the arrogance of the knowledge that they gained...assume that it somehow makes them spiritual or of the spirit.

What WON`T you do to ignore the evidence and confuse the issue? Number ONE Sunesis is a girl ..... Number TWO the only fanatsizing going on there was in YOUR mind.....she simply related the mo of vp. YOU are the one who made that into something ugly and perverted... How about being offended with the freaking pervert that COMMITTED these atrocities...instead if getting your panties in a twist over the folks that are telling what the freak did to them???? Number THREE....this is what happened to MANY mens teen aged daughters at the hands of vpw...but hey I understand...as long as it wasn`t your kiddo,I suppose then it doesn`t count. You cannot deal with the truth so you have to make up lies about everybody else in order to live within the parameters of your tiny little universe...

Woah ...

((((Eyes)))) I am so sorry about what happened to you. That is inexcusable ..My heart breaks for the teenaged you out their struggling to keep your vow and committment.... It would simply boggle your mind how many girls share a similar *wow field* story. It is very hard to come to grips with what happened, that we were fooled by evil men. That we in our youth, in our exuberance to serve God ...were nothing more than potential play things for the mogsis stunning. The thing is...it is the beginning of the cleansing and healing process. We have aquired so many unhealthy thought processes...so many false concepts concerning God while involved.... It isn`t untill we recognise the evil source of so many of our ideas ...that we begin to break free of the nasty little dark box that our religion has manufactured for us. Sure, some of it was good...what was stolen from bg...but the thing is so much was twisted and added that it is hard to sort the good from the bad. As difficult as this is to come to grips with, trust me...it is the beginning of freedom and growth. When I set aside the arrogance that my knowledge of the scriptures engendered....when I shouted at God that everything I had ever been taught about him was a lie....it was a day of huge deliverance, it was a new beginning...I could almost feel God chuckling ...saying...*ok...now that we finally have THAT straight...let`s start back at square one*...and it has been incredible...almost as if after 20 years I had finally removed my foot from the hose of God`s love and goodness. It has been an amazing journey. The first step is the most difficult, coming to grips with the dishonesty of our leaders.

I might suggest if he was sitting on someones face and farting...it wouldn`t be Jesus at all...maybe it is YOU who doesn`t know of whom you speak. John, come on, you cannot deal with the information presented so you resort to name calling and insulting.

John nobody love bombed Jean. She WAS however warmly greeted and treated with courtesy and respect. Yet she insists on slamming people and playing games. People for the most part are still being courteous. The treatment she receives will directly reflect the respect and courtesy she shows others. It is unrealistic to expect to come into a forum, address a situation that you personally were never in, concerning a person that you personally have never met....and call the people who WERE in the situation, who DID know the man liars.....and not expect people to respond to rudeness. You and jean are the ones doing the swinging here....everybody else has been presenting facts that you are unable to come to grips with,

You are ignoring several people that have told you what happened.....their *version* is the same as my own. I do not believe that you are honest jean. There were a lot of people that took you at face value when you said that you wanted the truth. There were alot of people that took the time and effort to write what happened to them. You have decided that it is simply *uninteresting*. It would have been more honest for you to have simply said *My mind is made up...DON`T confuse me with the facts* Then nobody would have wasted their time.

Oldies, their death at the atf`s hands was not what I was talking about. I was talking about how Koresche`s followers daughters became brides for Jesus as young as 13 years old. The man fathered many children with these youngsters. He led people to their deaths. Jim Jones his followers to their deaths. These men, like wirewille taught scriptures, yet people who were seeking God were used and died. I do not believe that they were Godly spiritual men. I do not believe that wierwille was either or he couldn`t have hurt people the way he was. To asume that God would work this way is an insult in my opinion.

Sunesis....that is very difficult to read. It is offendsive...it is disturbing to contemplate.....impossible to comprehend such nastiness. However, I believe that it is absolutely VITAL that we read this...NECESSARY to understand how vile this man was....how he corrupted those around him...how he sullied whatever he touched. Thank you for writing something that is so difficult. He took that which was good and pure ...whether it be classes on the bible from bg, eager young christian`s ministries, our brothers who wanted to minister...our precious sisters bodies......He took that which was wholsome and pure and in the name of GOD contaminated it with his perversion. He was despicable.

Oldies, I am curious....do Jim Jones and David Koresche get the same pass you are giving vpw in your book? Do the followers still owe their leaders a debt of gratitude for teaching them the scriptures?? I don`t ask this flippantly, I ask in all seriousness.

Why do you call it my universe?? Are you in an alternate one??? I have simply TOLD you what happened in twi. What problem do you have with reality?

Full circle, please reconsider. You have valuable input. We ALL do, each of us has a unique piece of the puzzle to share in presenting a picture of our twi experience. I have enjoyed reading you tremendously, and have apreciated your support....guess I never thanked you. Thankyou! We are an opinionated bunch...but doggone it...that doesn`t mean we want anybody to not be heard.

Hmmm..*Rascal and the thought police* sounds like a good name for a music group :)

Wolf, thanks for placing all of that personal testimony together so that it didn`t get buried. There is now no excuse to remain ignorant of our leaders true natures.