rascal

(((spot))) I understand. My husband and I had a long talk about this recently. I told him that I would far rather fellowship with the people who understood the greatest law...that of love...regardless of their doctrine.....than to ever again have to deal with a bunch of sounding brass and tinkling cymbles. The knowledge in twi tended to puff us up ..make us arrogant. The difference between the genuine and the counterfit are glaring.

Well to be honest wolf....Hermiony and Ron are in the back ground...each seemingly enacting different scenes. I don`t think that they are a part of what Harry is doing in the for front. The american version shows harry and voldemort alone...except there are people on the other side of arches in the shadows.... Your scenario could still be essentially correct.

No...but I LIKE it...lol

YES!!! I have been struck with the similarities as well. There was always a scriptural reason pounded into peoples heads WHY it was necessary to go against their better judgement. It was the same in the special I watched about the davidians. The survivors STILL find ways to think that it is all ok.

Amen Mr. Hamm!

Thank you Abigail.

Lonely, I think that you make an awull lot of assumpyions about vpw....his thoughts his heart his struggles. Did you know him personally? Did you spend a lot of time with him in private? Your perception that he struggled...is in direct contrast to the accounts of the people who spent time with him on a daily basis. As far as your assumptions concerning about God`s love for vpw... Does he hold the same love for the pharacees? the saducees? koresche? Jim Jones? Or any other criminal through out history who hurt people in God`s name???I mean what do you REALLY know of his motives and heart??? Maybe the scriptures he taught were nothing more than a weapon or tool to sate the lusts of his flesh. The scriptures warned up of false prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing...I have yet to see any evidence that he is NOT in this catagory.

Naw...she is RIGHT where she wants to be. She has driven off any who might have had the ability to lead....She has neutered any male that stayed....making them calm quiet and controllable. She has been calling the shots for a long long time...she ain`t goin ANYWHERE!

How about a pretty teen aged girl sent back in time and forced into the way corpes...and having to endure the vile attentions of himself and vic? Have him forced to live as a second class citizen with no power and authority over her own life...but that of her tc or spouse? Let him spend hours on hard seats enduring his own tirades while the spittle lands on him in the first row.

I have a nephew who went from perfectly normal to autistic within a few weeks of recieving his shots at two years old.

I don`t call people names, and I try not to make personal attacks against other posters period. I think you read a lot into my posts that is not there... I have not responded to the numerous personal attacks against my veracity or mental health..accusations...shrug. We are discussing facts and ideas here openly and honestly. I can read and consider your points and their merits if I am not having to dodge around all of the irrelevent accusations, and back handed insults. It was an attempt at civility....nothing more

Thanks Rainbows Girl. That was nicely said :) Jean could you possibly try to make your points without having to include a personal cutting or nasty remark? Please? It would be much easier to consider your pov without the accompanying venom.

AMEN DOOJ!!!! We aren`t right or wrong...we all are simply in posession of different pieces of the puzzle...each individual and unique....each piece adding a new facet to the over all picture!! None are unimportant, none can be disgarded...all are of equal importance. I LOVE it!! I think the greasespot icon should be partially completed puzzle with pieces scattered around awaiting placement! :)

Well all of my dogs and cats get dry. The cats are on walmarts special kitty... the dogs are on something mark picked up at the feed store. I haven`t checked. With all of my animals...I cannot afford expensive food...I hope that they will be ok. My dane xena was on the diamond dog food that poisoned so many last year...she even ate some that was reported to have been bad...fortunatly she suffered no noticable ill affects from it. We had many many die in our are because of that. Oh Dot I have an update....you remember the little stray ... bu tt ugly dog??? Well he was adopted by my friend and was successfully treated for heartworms...his new name is now *Petey* he lives inside with another dog and two cats. He takes good care of his new Mom. They were made for each other.

Hey call it what you want....lol but I don`t do no steenkin blue forms no more...lol

Talk about thought police...look who`s trying to point fingers about who talks about vpw...and determining how much is apropriate...lol I suppose that since you weren`t coerced into sex with him...or recieved a drink from his driver and awkened in the mogs bed being raped by him, or on the recieving end of a lewd proposition..OR thrown off the wow field at 17 for posession when you failed to put out for him on the bus....then yeah..it would be very easy to conveniently dismiss him from your thoughts. HOWEVER..if you were one of the above described persons who suffered grievously at this mans hands....IF perhaps you had a love one die as a result of adherance to his doctrine....you MIGHT have a smidge more personal investment in discussing what happened and why. The person responsible for the viscious and cruel betrayal might come to mind more often. Jean, you are apparently unable to seperate the issues...lemmeee spell it out for you....while the guy was teaching you the glorious truths ...he was flat out destroying others behind the scenes. My heart bleeds for our wounded brothers and sisters....some of these wounds heal in times...others never do....my outrage is directed at the men and women who perpetrated these crimes. Frankly I am at a loss to understand why anybody WOULDN`T be deeply offended and outraged at what occured. You and John seem unable to empathise with the devistation that others endured....according to your posts...it doesn`t appear to matter because you two personally recieved some good....you are unwilling to allow even the most basic of comfort to be derived from sharing with others whom have endured similar pain and humiliation.....none of that is important because John and Jean want everybody to know that it wasn`t so bad and that most of these guys are probably liars anyway.... MAN and you guys repeatedly have call ME a sociopath. (sociopath meaning the world revolves around one`s self and everything is viewed within the context of how it affects one personally) No empathy or compassion. It should sicken you to the depths of your being what happened to our brothers and sister in God`s name directly at these peoples hands...it should...but it doesn`t. Eves...don`t be rediclous...of COURSE I still adore you...lol if you ever STOP contributing to these threads ...THEN I will hafta get mad...lol Thanks girl.

There is NO excuse to treat ones brothers and sisters in Christ badly...none whatso ever. Excuses for bad or wrong behavior is a byproduct of associtation with twi. Jesus told us how to recognise one another...and the lable that we plaster on ourselves certainly was not part of the criteria he presented.

Dot...I am so sorry about Janice`s cat. Please express my condolences.

Uuuh yeah...I um can really see that in the way he treats his sisters ... He is just a real cuddly sweet heart

I didn`t know that he did that. Sure adds a new perspective to my opinion of this man.

awww come on John, it was funny...(note the smiley face after the sentence) I think it is even funnier though that you thought of it in terms of aggression.... I guess I need to clarify for you John, that *guys* was not in reference to gender...but rather those whom believed that their opinion on ministry matters placed them in the minority.

OK...I was just looking at the newly released cover art for the british version of the deathly hallows.... It is completely different. Wooohoo ..more clues!! What IS significant is that there is a stone arch prominent. Ron looks horrified....from the looks of his hair he is falling backwards..........hermiony has her arms reaching out screaming...Harry is reaching for something... Harry and hermiony both have significant burns on their arms...and harrys sleeve is melted or charred....there is a fantastic looking suit of armor with a dragon on the helmet buried amongst lots and lots of Gold and treasure. He might be reaching for a shiney green round thing....there is a small pale...dead looking hand on harry`s shoulder ...a bit of a head can be seen...(possibly a house elf?) it`s other hand is raised with a sword (griffindors?)........can`t tell if it is riding harrys back or trying to hold him back from what he is striving for. The BIG thing is that the arch is prominently featured in both covers. This would make sense since the arch was never really explained well in tooftp

Calling vpw the *real deal* is an insult to genuine Christians everywhere. Fruit alway tells....drunkeness, adultery lasciviousness, hate, guess what mcquade?? That among many others that vpw displayed on a distressingly regular basis....is the fruit of a man who HAS no inheritance in the Kingdom of God according to scriptures. The really funny part...he was able get us to completely DISCOUNT the significance of examining fruit in order to identify someones spiritual healthiness or lack there off....sheer genius!

Awww I think that sometimes people just grouse and complain that *it`s not a level playing field*...because after coming into posession of the heretofor hidden facts concerning our ministry here....many change their previous mindsets and opinions. It appears to irritate those who do not wish to change .... . Guys (added clarification and spelled out for Johns understanding.....*guys* AS in reference to those in the minority opinion...not in reference to gender) ...there is a REASON why your opinion is in the minority here..... :) I think that somebody earlier called this a *coping* or *defense* mechanism.

There have been some AWSOME points made on this thread.....more later....I have to leave now, but just know please.....all of you that ..... please know that your input here has been really apreciated.....that you guys have helped me so much in understanding some important concepts that I was struggling with. You guys are just too cool!