rascal

And damned thankfull I AM for them and this haven :) Thanks guys!

preventing brain damage

Thank you Eyes, that means a lot. You nailed the point that I was trying to make. JUST when we think that we have our ducks in a row....we find yet another area or facet of our understanding that needs examination and possible correcting. It took decades of conditioning ourselves to think and react the way that we do....I think that it takes a lot of honesty and hard work to recover a healthy thought and decision making process after what we have been through. Chas...lol :) You could be correct. Excathedra, I don`t get it either, but thank you for your encouragement and support. Belle... Thanks, I don`t want to be intimidated into silence ever again.

Amen High way :)

Annam, We are attempting to have a civil discussion here. There are sensible counter points to your fingers pointed and slurs cast. You seem to percieve this as an attack. Please read the comments in the spirit that they were offered.

John you continue to mischaracterize me, my points and my motives. Please stop. Please leave me alone.

Gosh, I might have gone on to college to further my education but was told that THAT was *worldly knowledge*...that *God needed me on the front lines spiritually* that *I needed the spiritual education that I could recieve on the wow field and in the way corpes more than I needed worldly wisdom*. I guess they were wrong, and education IS an important thing.....sigh just one more thing I missed out on when trying to follow God`s orders per twi`s instruction. Spelling and grammatical errors do not prevent me from having a point of view or expressing it.

It would seem that he is the Christian man of the spirit that so many moggy wanna bees in twi masqueraded as. He doesn`t have to be involved with twi be virulent in his critisizms. He has been aware of the horrendous treatment recieved at the hands of vpw/lcm, the disgusting twisting of scriptures to justify their horrific abuse.

You know what *I* think would be an awsome thing to do??? This is just a silly day dream.....but buy that place, rent out several dozen dozers and give them out to the now grown kiddos and parents that suffered at that place. Seems to me that it would be very satisfying to bull doze the walls on their one time prison.

Annam, Jesus didn`t seem to have any use for people that hurt the innocent, for those religious leaders who hurt people in God`s name. Terrible terrible things were done to some of us in God`s name in twi. ...those of us foolish enough to trust that these men were honest. Men who claimed to be speaking for God, inflicted great harm and used the authority garnered as his leader to sate the lusts of their bellies. This is a place where God works to heal the pain inflicted by unscrupulous people. It is not gossip or back biting if it really happened . I am sorry that it offends you that we talk about what these people did. I think that you ought to be offended by the people who actually committed the crimes against us...shrug. Jesus publicly warned people about those individuals. He warned about wolves in sheeps clothing and false prophets.... He also called the jerks who inflicted harm the most vile names that he could think of when confronting them. I see no difference in what we do here. I hope that you will stay around long enough to see and understand the great good and healing that is to be found here.

My take??? I think that we will never get it....I think the bible is a history book of sorts...a book of how God worked with a certain group of people within parameters that they could understand and accept. To try to apply it and it`s tennents to our civilazation today is quite limiting imo. I think the *truths* that we hold so dear .... that a lot of the stories contained...creation, noah, etc could be an attempt at understanding phenomena with the mentality and understanding of people 5000 plus years ago. I think God is not limited to their mentality and understanding as the paramters in which he is able to function...and that the way he addresses the people of 21st century might be entirely different. What does it all boil down to? Love God and love your neighbor is about the best I can come up with. The rest is all subject to speculation.

You know? It is amazing how excited I am as we count down the days...how eagerly I look forward to finally getting all of the answeres. Yet....I am grieved that THIS is the last one...the last time that we will look forward to a book release with such excitement....I feel like this is the end of a once in a life time very special thing...nuts eh? I cannot believe that I am this tied up in a book series that I actually was against for the first four....lol I can remember being disgusted with seeing the people on the news waiting all night in line for the book release.... It was from participating on a thread at way dale that I first had the courage to go ahead and read the first four books to evaluate their suitability for my children....geeze...who`d a thought that it would be me that turned into the fan? The series has almost been like a measuring stick to mark my progress since leaving twi. From reluctant reading of the first four books, cautiously guarding my thoughts against becoming devil spirit influenced .....to excited anticipation for the release of the order of the phoenix, to full fledged participation in the midnight book release, participating with costumes and all....lol my kids actually one several prizes. We had a quiditch player, a talking picture and blast ended skrewt, a flobber worm and some fresh caught cornish pixies :) The last book, we were in northern mich where book stores were quite few and far between....my family thought we were INSANE when my sister in law, niece and daughters and myself left the lake where we were camping, and rather than just waiting untill the next morning when we could pick it up in wal mart 30 miles away.... drove an hour and a half to the only book store we could find in the upper penninsula that was having a midnight release party. We took turns reading out loud by flashlight to one another all the way back to the lake and stayed up most of the night reading together....what fun...what memories. I don`t know if we are going to wear costumes or not this time, but have always thought it would be fun to wear a toilet seat and go as moaning myrtle.

I remember that teaching about having fellowship even if it was just you...lol

wolf, thanks a bunch. How long do you think that it will be there? I haven`t much time this morning, but wouldn`t pass the chance up if it will be gone before tonight.

Wolf, How do I register to take it? I can pull the id card, but it wants an established student id.

Prayers immediately...Oh ((((Mo)))) I am so sorry for this added difficulty.

THATS what bothers me....they have been living high off the proceeds from our labor and sacrifice. They are able to continue to function and hurt people because of the financial abundance that WE gave them.

Yeah, and THATS why it so much fun to have all of you guys around to participate in this process together :)

To clarify my previous statement about levels.....lol actually I had been watching Shrek with the kids that afternoon, where he was bellowing at Donkey about ogres being like onions....they have LAYERS! I was thinking about how there are layers or levels to our thinking process, our understanding....how as soon as we examine and resolve one issue, there is an underlying idea of facet that you never saw before, and only when that has been examined and addressed, and removed, can we see that there is yet another layer or level that was hidden from view by the previous layer. This process can take years of peeling away the layers ...and just when you think that you have it all figured out, that you are at the heart of the matter, you discover that your current understanding is but yet another layer ....and you don`t realise it untill you see beyond that to the next layer that presents itself..... I don`t know it made sense to me at the time.

Shifra, I thought that you made an excellent point, I am sorry for any embarrssment that I caused.

Ahhh there in lies the rub...I have to ever wonder if it ever WAS Godly......maybe it was just a very clever counterfit that decieved an awfull lot of good people :(

Exactly Bramble.

I dunno but it sure has shapped my bu tt over the years to see them sell off all of the properties one by one bought with the money that WE contributed, that WE developed and improved with our free slave labor, to see the procedes pocketed by people who had little or no investment involved.

Lol ...Good one shifra

Well `s a good thang gramatical akcuricy ain`t a pre requisit to posting hyar abouts . Just skip over my ill worded posts if you don`t mind since it bothers you so. Heres an original thought! Why not both of you comment on the topic at hand rather than stalking and tag teaming as bullies?