rascal

Great thoughts Eyes. I have stunned myself and my family with sudden streaks of stubborness (aka back bone) and not being intimidated into backing down. I hadn`t put it together with overcoming the intimidation and learned submission aquired in twi. As a woman, EVERYBODY knew better, was more spiritual, had higher insight than me. I never had the confidence to back up myself or ideas, always assuming that someone else knew better. After reading your post, I guess that I will count it as yet another major step in my healing to have the courage to stand by my opinions and ideas (aka bullheadedstubborness) :)

I spell it corpEs on purpose. Seems to me in hindsight, that it was necessary to murder something inside to survive the training :( Kind of like the walking dead) It is just as I thought, those principles sound pretty neat on paper, but in hind sight starkly lacking as far as the christian walk. What good are any of those things going to be for you or anybody else if you have forgotten decency, basic moral character and integrety, fruit of the spirit, and love God and love your neighbor?

Woah Skyrider, THAT is pretty damned twisted. The corpes principles....the most important thing that were to be manifest...funny... Jesus seemed to have a whole other set of priorities.....Love God and love your neighbor...on these two commandments/principles rest ALL the law....In addition to the one you pointed out,I don`t remember that in any of the principles of being corpes. OK, all you folks with better memories than mine...what were the other corpes principles?

I had a ball! Thanks guys, it was a pleasure to meet and talk with everyone. You all had such warm voices. You guys were so kind when I was so nervous. Thank you for indulging me in some of my favorite subjects (people at home are sure sick of the critter stories) Rosey started raising the roof after you all hung up, giving paw a taste of what bird ownership is all about (I think it might have changed his mind lol) :).

Bliss it makes perfect sense. God almighty ruler of the heavens and the universe HAS to bend to my will because I am preforming the formula juuust right. Wierwille was wrong the way he interpreted that verse and taught it...as he found out himself when it was his time to operate the principle...he died... Believing isn`t a state of mind that we conjure up when we want something, a quarter that we put in the vending machine when we want a blessing dispensed.... It is hard to reduce it to some catch phrase...but in short the best that I can describe it....it is an attitude of humble trust that God will be there period. That is when the details fall into place, the blessings are spontaneous in ways that are far better than the original plan that I might have thought of.

Actually ...as embarrassing as the dancing was.....as cheesy as the costumes were...the words to the song were troubling to me. Renewed mind is the key to the power thats in me....every word in every verse and the chorus were all about me and me causing myself to be victorious and spiritual...by renewing my mind It is hard to describe why this disturbs me so much ....other than it seems to entirely negate God and grace and goodness...and prayer ..... the learning curve and path that we are on....rather it is all about how we control all of these things by actions that we take. I don`t know ...it seems to leave God entirely out of the equation.

It burns ussss...make it stooooooooooop :(

Exactly guys ...geeze Ham, how wonderfull that your little girl survived. That quiet peace with God is what I am fumbling towards...where you know that he is there...what you described, it is so different than the formulas and confessions and self examination to find out where we blew it and let satan in...mental tally trying to figure out if we tithed enough or is our belief up to snuff...etc I am NOT trying to crap on anybodies good memories, anybodies results, what I want to say is that even though according to the scriptures that we learned in pfal we are heaven bound an all hell cannot stop us.......if the fruit manifested in our lives or those of our leaders id clearly recognised as someone who is of the flesh and the scriptures state uncatagorically that they have no inheritance in the kingdom of God...., then something just isn`t right. If we already think that we know all of the answeres, as pfal seems to promise...we are not going to be motivated to make the changes necessary nor seek deliverance. OK, I think pfal can be flat out dangerous.

I guess that what I am saying, and badly, is that in hind sight, pfal doesn`t seem to have been the answere to a relationship with God or a guide to spiritual wholesomeness. It is scary to me that people think that this knowledge aquired somehow makes one spiritual....when obviously the fruit in so many of our lives and that of our leaders falls in squarely the category *of the flesh* Genuine Christians simply don`t behave as we were led to believe...but pfal class makes excuses as to why it is acceptable to embrace evil and pretend that one can do so and remain unsullied. Frankly, I am afraid that this class gives people the illusion of being Christian, but I wonder how many of us are going to one day face Jesus and be told to *depart for I knew you not* I think that it takes more than just knowledge and formulas to be christian.

It doesn`t take pfal to see a baby brought back from drowning. My friends 2 yr old was found submerged and unresponsive, and it had been far longer than ten miniutes......and they nobody in that group were grads. Yeah ...thank God, it was miraculous....but not due to anybodies operation of particular formulas or prayers. Some times they make it, sometimes as in the case of my husbands baby brother ...they don`t. Special knowledge doesn`t seem to be a factor. The thing that I see in hind sight is that so many many people took that class became arrogant in their *knowledge* We had ALL the answeres to life and Godliness donchaknow? The results were sporadic, at best. It was nearly 20 years later before I saw God start working again ...and that was when I admitted that I really knew nothing. Knowledge puffeth up ...I get it now All of that knowledge and all of those scriptures learned and all of those principles operated didn`t help prevent people from becoming incredibly evil, nor inspire them with the heart of a true christian to love one another. We knew the word, we didn`t HAVE to act as a christian. It was ok to destroy and consume one another like ravening wolves....

I am sorry, but what is an extensive exposition? It sounds like a whole other book could have been written concerning Ginny, Neville, and Luna and the final year at hogwarts with the death eaters as teachers, the tortures that left scars for misdeeds. How COOL that Neville stepped up to the plate in the absence of the usual leaders amongst the students....

eh?

(((Topper))) Thank you for being willing to share your perspective. Your posts have had far reaching impact on so many of us.

Wow...what a special special treat. When I finished....as I sat stunned and digesting what I had read...my overwhelming thought was that I wished that I could say thank you to the author for the once in a life time treat. She stayed brilliant to the end. Bow, I don`t remember that conversation...but I am sure glad that the princess got to enjoy the series. Now it is your turn.

I have a REAL problem with the people who suffered being deemed unworthey of God`s time, attention, protection etc....but that because somebody was carrying some cashola, that God would see THEM through :(

Yeah, God took care of YOU for the wow money. He couldn`t be bothered to prevent the rape and loss of life :( Some how those who were violated were unworthey of God`s protection....grrrrr

One bad ride? Only one rape? just one murder? just a single accident??? That tends to be a pretty big deal when your life is the one impacted by twi`s lack of consideration for even the most basic of safety measures.

Does anybody find it ironic how obsessively twi so carefully stewarded and cared for the posessions, the buildings, the grounds, the equipment ...to the point of being rediculously anal...and yet they had so very little regard for the people in their custody and care.

The answer? I think that they just didn`t give a damn about people. WE were a disposable commodity. Something to be used and when every last bit of usefullness had been wrung from us, tossed away like so much trash. What happened to our brothers and sister, the rapes, the injuries, the murder was not a big deal because we easily replaceable.

Could it be that you haven`t seen God or his goodness here because you simply neglected to look before you started casting accusations?

Ephesians, pardon me, but just who in the heck are YOU to deny great healing and good that God almighty has accomplished for so many many people here on these boards??? There are people here that have been in the trenches for years assisting the beaten and bloodied refugees from twi. It offends me that you would presume to not only deny his goodness, but attempt to lead people AWAY from the comfort and healing to be found here. I don`t think that your admonition was Godly at all.

We had a ball! Thanks for making the trip abi :) The cabin was an abandoned one room school house that my great grandfather tore down and erected on the lake as his hunting shack almost 80 years ago....so it isn`t much to look at. Heck, we only got running water, telephone and electricity in the last ten years. It still has no indoor plumbing...lol Never the less, we dearly love our camp. I spent nearly every summer of my childhood here. I am thankfull to have such a legacy to share in turn with my children. Superior IS beautifull, the white sand beaches, the clean air, the pounding of the surf without the trash and tourists....sigh Abi, that was the hurricane river that we stopped at. Ausabo lake and falls is further towards grand maraise. It was sure fun to share some of our child hood memories together.

Eagle, opposit IS ok...what isn`t is that he calls people liars because their experiences of abuse do not line up with his views of twi...

Oh amen amen and AMEN Dooj!! Good GOD I remember every darned womens advance that I went to in over ten years of involvement in numerous states....the ONLY theme was how to serve your man....the body of Christ, to be pleasing to God...that was to get yourself a man and help him be his best for God. There were classes on finding your spiritual equal, How to submit, how to serve, how to anticipate their desire....omg.. At the GUYS advances....THEY got to go fishing, got to watch the ball games, grill out ...etc. I never once in all of my years heard that anything was taught about being a better husband, or what would be a blessing to their wives and children....etc It was so unfair.

That isn`t fair Rick. I`d term repeated accusations of lying/embellishing/exagerating/perpetual whining victimhood more in the catagory of ceaseless personal attacks.....yeah that could lead to *bad blood* I have never lied. I can only surmise why my experience and testimony would offend someone to the point of accusations against my integrety and veracity. I resent the hell out of being accused of participating in some silly little forum war when I have simply tried to defend myself when falsely accused of these things. I don`t enjoy the attacks nor the inference that I would EVER falsely accuse anybody simply because I disliked them. I am not the only person that has been mistreated in twi that has been called a liar here, usually by the same couple of people.....and yet the accusers can offer no other proof than they just don`t want to believe that about the ministry leaders that they once liked and respected. On second thought, maybe it is a war being waged trying to silence people sharing the more viscious side of twi experiences :(