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Everything posted by rascal
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I just don`t understand this insane need to marginalize and minimalize what these men and their pimps did. I don`t understand why the need to savage the then young innocent teens ... questioning their veracity, their judgement.....who were DRUGGED and RAPED...others who were DECEIVED and SEDUCED....by men claiming that it was their spiritual RIGHT and others spiritual DUTY to comply. Yet where is the outrage that ought to be directed at these monsters who perpetrated these heinous acts. These men rather than the benevolent shepherds, caring for the flock??? Do they not more fit the description of ravening wolves seeking whom they may devour??? The false prophets that deceived in God`s name to fill the lusts of their bellies??? I have a question for all of you guys....Dove, oldies, Jonny, Do any of you have teen aged daughters??? Do you have any idea how naieve and trusting that they are? How willing to please? How reluctant to hurt??? There is a reason that they are vulnerable...why they need our protection....why it is a felony as an adult male to have sex with them. The deserve our protection and guidance as the precious at time fragile young souls that they are.
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Cat thank you for taking the time to share what you did. I know that you will never convince those whom willingly remain ignorant....but it is like someone else said....there are many who will read of your families treatment and...recognise the spiritual depravity of those whom we once held in such esteem...they will begin THEIR journey towards healing and wholeness. These are the stories that break the mental chains that bound so many of us for so many years even after physically leaving twi. What suprises me is how far folks will go to make villains out of the people who dare to merely SPEAK of the evil that vpw/lcm/Geer practiced....rather than being outraged and deeply offended at what these men DID utilizing the name of God and scriptures to enforce their sick wishes.
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Sorry I see that it has already been covered.
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Oldies, you are dead wrong in your summation of me and my opinion of david and solomon....first of all THEY were never considered *of the spirit*...theyu lived before Jesus Christ made Holy spirit available. I understand a man living of the flesh...but but BUT.... VPW was supposed to be a man of the SPIRIT. There is a whole different criteria for what the behaviors of a man of the spirit would manifest. Yeah, he didn`t do anything worse n David or solomon...I guess you make my point....he behaved as badly as the man of the flesh that galatians described...oops! We are told right there that he will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God...and I therefor think that any opinion he has on spiritual matters are highly suspect....
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Cat, if I may...it is your story to tell...but I have read before and was deeply disturbed by your account of how vpw looked you straight in the eye and lied about why your 17 yr old sister had been thrown out. The man deliberately and coldly savaged her character and reputation and any respect or credibility that she had. Whether it was because he had been thwarted or ....ed, or because he needed to cover his tracks to keep people from hearing her story....either one was a dispicable reason for a minister, a man who proclaimed to love God....it is inexcusable that they would destroy an innocent who had simply looked to them for spiritual guidance :( I also remember talking with your father in chat and how he related to us that leadership had not asked,, but required that he not allow his own daughter in his home.....(whether to live of visit I forget....I hope that I have that correct) I know these are your stories, I hope that you don`t mind that I bring back information shared in the past....but doggone it...I think people need to know how far beyond the pail this is of just a few lapses in character and judgement. These people set out to destroy peoples lives with visciousness and utilizing any means within their power when thwarted. These grown adult older men savaging young naieve women who had no where to turn. These aren`t the actions of benevolent ministers that made a few minor errors in judgement. It is cold hard calculated evil in my book.
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There was a REASON that the women didn`t report the drugging and rapes. Number one, from the accounts, it was all very surreal, the disbelief that this was actually happening.....the man of God for our day and hour was giving every evidence of being nothing more than a filthy old pervert....then you are served a drink by the bus driver ...and everything gets fuzzy...the next coherant thought is of waking up in bed with the mog....a place that most who finally tell their stories never intended to be. You find Dot`s account, where she was cornered in the coach and got away, cat cups sister etc...what was the difference in the stories of those who got away and those who didn`t??? ....the drink served by the bus driver....Those who got away had their reputations savaged and their characters assassinated with tales of posession in order to keep people from listening. You have John Lynn saying that it had been happening for years...... Either vpw knew and condoned the drugging and is guilty of rape, or his driver was drugging the teenaged girls unbeknownst to him ...though I have trouble believing that he didn`t figure out sex with a passed out teenager was wrong. Why didn`t this come forth when vp was alive??? I can only surmise the shame and embarrassment, add that together with the trauma of losing all family, friends, and spiritual support who were told to not have any contact, would make telling difficult. There was nobody TOO tell whom would believe. Even here, when the stories are told, these ladies are treated badly by the ones who cannot handle the graphic truth of who and what these men were.
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All I ask is that you base your dislike and disagreement on what I actually write and what my position actually is. I have explained myself and pointed out why your assumption is wrong. You can either accept the information, or continue to believe what you want to pretend that my position actually is...only that would not be very honest.
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Jonny, come ON...you see what you WANT to see in me....I think that your perception is distorted by your personal dislike. I said that I didn`t have a problem...and I don`t. I explained my whole issue AND how it was within context of the title of this thread. 'If in your skimming of my posts you missed it...I will reiterate. The title of this thread IS *a few big things I learned in pfal (A) and do you still believe them (b)*. If thy didn`t want to know whether I stilled believe em...they shouldnaadded the second question ...shrug I didn`t contradict a single poster....UNTILL `Cid said *the word the word and nothing but the word* was the ONLY thing that was important...nothing else mattered. In keeping with the second question in the thread title..I took issue with the position put forth by cid , and cid alone (I didn`t deny anything anybody else wrote) propositon that nothing else but the word mattered. For you to lay any other motive than that to my posts, or accuse me of not allowing someone to say something nice about twi is a flat out lie..Jonny Please, if you want to be irritated with me, be honest....do so about what I actually write. not what you ish to believe.
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Too bad she didn`t walk away??? Did you even READ the account??? That she was probably drugged?? That John Lynn himself told her that it had been happening for years??? Jonny....You don`t just *walk away* after being drugged....your faculties are not entirely present...(Gee ... ya SUPPOSE that is why they had to drug the girls ? :blink: )...an entirely different situation than was with the oft presented scenario with your wife resisting a little temptation...Geeeze ....damned right she had a choice, luckily for her....it wasn`t the preadator vpw that had her in his sights and geer with his drink to facilitate . Suda.....there is much more going on here than poor old `cid being picked on because they said a nice thing about twi/pfal. I would hope that you would give me more credit then that. Thats what folks would like to portray this as.....it`s not....cid opened volly by declairing that the word the word and nothing but the word was ALL that was important. I firmly disagree with that statement.. ( the second half of the thread title asked *and DO I still believe them*) AM I only allowed to respond if I DO believe this stuff??? The discussion then went from that to cid accusing me of laying untrue charges at the feet of these men...ie calling me a liar because he didn`t want to believe it.(I suppose I am suppose to ignore THAT accusation as well) There were several willing to point him in the direction of accounts confirming my allegations. Cid now has the choice of knowing or not, of deciding if the acts of these criminals have any bearing on the reliability of the information that they hold as truth. Nobody is picking on the poor newby who blundered and said something nice concerning twi. There are some here who would make it that, some here who would try to use it as a chance to once again attack those whom hold view points that they just don`t like to face. I have no problem with people saying nice things about twi, and am dissapointed that you would say that of me suda. What I did respond to was someone claiming that the only thing important was the word, and using that as a stick to beat people with...ok?
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I enjoyed it very much as well. It was exciting to have ideas sparking, experiences and conclusions dove tailing together. I felt like I came away with a greater appretiation for God`s goodness and guidance.
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OK, so what do I do/downl;oad so that I can participate? Please? Excathedra, I wish that you didn`t feel shame. You were so very young. We trusted the wrong people. I still haven`t figured out where God was in all of this :(
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I am waiting to hear also. I want to know if this behavior is based on ignorance of the facts at hand, or knowing the truth but not caring about the lives destroyed.
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76/77 So much about the good old days when the ministry was good and pure. Another myth bites the dust.
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I don`t believe `ciderator has the courage to read that account.
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Great to see you again (((Ophelia))) I remember you fondly. I am so very sorry for your difficult time.
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Jonny, I heard vpw himself say it as well.
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Fond memories I get, I have them too. I love the people whom stood up for their people, I love them for the courage that it took to stand up against the status quo. I understand why it was done...I just think that completely unbeknownst to ourselves, we ended up facilitating the evil. They couldn`t have operated or survived without us.
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I do remember him claiming that Mcdonalds was his idea, I don`t remember krocker stealing it nor the upside down arches though. Not that it would suprise me if he did. He was full of rediculous claims.
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Nice, real nice Deciderator, just about exactly as much compassion and understanding that I would expect from an idolater :( You don`t understand, and you don`t care to. You just want to point your finger of condemnation at everybody and expect people to return to the vomit of twi doctrine. Your obsession blinds, and prevents understanding. I am sorry for you.
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Word wolf, thank you for that recommendation. I will look into it. You are right different people enjoy different aspects of the story. I really admire your analytical ability, the way you keep facts and story lines straight, how you pick up the tiny details. I am sorry that the story fell short in those areas. I guess that the characters over time become very real to me, when she gives added back ground, it`s kind of like finding out more about a very dear friend. I liked that the concept of deathly hallows was so foreign to me....that I couldn`t see where things were possibly going to go...that I was guessing right up untill the end as to the out come. I kind of liked when short plump and for the most part kindly Mrs. W said that the b-tch was hers....being a mother I kind of identified with the rage of someone daring to threaten one of my youngsters...lol....it kind of intensified the whole scenario in my mind.... I liked reading about the families afterwards too.
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:blink: I guess that I am just not sharp enough...
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Eh? I am sure that there is some deep spiritual meaning in your post there wth, but I`ll be darned if I can figure it out. I have to say though that it makes darned near as much sense as the first one :blink:
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Generic everything as far as food...drugs whenever possible. SHOES on the other hand ...I never scrimp on because my feet hurt. Clothes and stuff, I find that many of the better name brands last longer and stay nicer looking, standing up to wear and tear better. The kids and I have tried experiments with soups and stuff in side by sides with walmart brands....yes campbells did taste slightly better...but not enough so that we were willing to pay the difference again...same with chicken nuggets...bread...etc. It was fun to try though. True story...when I worked at frito lay...the oatmeal cookie line would run half the night being packaged in Grandmas old fashioned cookie wrappers and then switch to quakers healthy snack bars or some such thing. Same ingredients same batch ...no difference. I would see the same cookie in their different wrappers side by side in the stores. I think that there are a lot of companies that do that.