rascal

Woah ...heart candy...dooj your words paint a powerfull mind picture.

Well I have a gun too...lol Hey Dot as a quick aside....the revolver that I was talking about is American arms or Heritage...it comes in 22 or 22 mag...it`s handle folds onto it like a pocket knife where it conceals in a nice little pouch a little larger than pocket knife. :)

Like I said...what might appear to be valid teachings on the surface ...later morphed into ways to control people and hurt them. I don`t see God in all of that.

Well God forgives when we repent and ask...I guess that I will forgive then as well...We are to love one another for sure.... That in no way negates our instructions given concerning those of the flesh or those ministers that do what vp did.... The teachings that you mentioned I think distract from the ones that led into the more dangerous stuff. Teaching that all the women in the kingdom belonged to David was used as the foundation for the later teaching vpw used to justify his adultery and taking of young women... Teaching about recieving equals believing led to the teachings that to seek medical treatment was not believing.... Teaching that confession of reciept equals reciept of confession ...led to people not being allowed to speak of medical conditions and needs because it meant they were confessing negatives....I know that people died directly because of this. The teachings led to other doctrines....obedience to leadership right or wrong...that God would cover no matter what because of our hearts....people followed these teachings with pure heart and in innocence died. Drugging rape....death..broken marriages...children aborted..... These do not bear the ear marks of a spiritually healthy foundation.

Well God forgives when we repent and ask...I guess that I will forgive then as well...We are to love one another for sure.... That in no way negates our instructions given concerning those of the flesh or those ministers that do what vp did.... The teachings that you mentioned I think distract from the ones that led into the more dangerous stuff. Teaching that all the women in the kingdom belonged to David was used as the foundation for the later teaching vpw used to justify his adultery and taking of young women... Teaching about recieving equals believing led to the teachings that to seek medical treatment was not believing....to not do what was asked even when dangerous....was not believing.... Teaching that confession of reciept equals reciept of confession ...led to people not being allowed to speak of medical conditions and needs because it meant they were confessing negatives....I know that people died directly because of this....they kept quiet about symptoms of illness. (no negatives) ..not seeking medical help (believing God) and died suddenly. The teachings in pfal led to other doctrines....obedience to leadership right or wrong...that God would cover no matter what because of our hearts....people followed these teachings with pure heart and in innocence died. Drugging rape....death..broken marriages...children aborted..... These do not bear the ear marks of a spiritually healthy foundation.

One word...KARATE...It isn`t the answer to every situation, but it sure can be the solution to a lot of problems. All of my kids are required to study it. The odds of one of the 8 of us being attacked in this life time are pretty significant....we endeavor to increase the odds of our survival in any way we can. Good advice waysider.

Did I learn anything from pfal??? Well cid to be honest..the things I learned in pfal, though they seemed innocuos and harmless on the surface...invariably were the basis for a springboard into the false teachings that so harmed us. The scriptures that I was taught invariably became the foundation for the bars of my prison...the ammunition for the weapon held to my head to enforce somebody elses will. It might have been ok if the will being enforced was Godly...but what i was required to do was not. In hindsight, to me...pfal seems like the gateway (thinking like gateway drugs) to the harmfull things that eventually hurt us deeply and pulled us away from God.

I guess that y`all just don`t want to know....it almost seems like rather than reading and trying to understand one another...you want to engage in a ....ing match...defend your position at all costs....nastiness?? insults?? false accusations??? ALL fair game if you don`t like the others position. I am trying to explain from the heart why this stuff is so tough to deal with.....lets talk about this...try not to see one another as on a soap box proclaiming heretical slurs .... someone to be taken down....I thought we were all on the same side?? `Cid...forgivness...doesn`t negate our clear biblical instructions concerning a man who does what vp did.

Damn it Cat I feel like you are smacking me in the head with a ball bat with every post you write....I`ll be DAMNED if you didn`t just describe me to a *T* The desire to not rock the boat...the desire to do anything to please....inability to say no....hmmmmm Ok....so I guess once recognising this as unhealthy behavior....we can stop.... how do we stop from passing this crap on to the kiddoes?

`cid...that isn`t what I said at all...I didn`t say vpw was God. I DID say that it was difficult to see God given credit for a man who created such wholesale destruction in peoples lives.....shrug.. Scripturally all evidence points to the above scenario I described...and Dot gave you scriptural reference to what we were to do with those such as he. Why were we not to be around people like him?? why not eat with him??? Because they are farking DANGEROUS!! We are never told to excuse the bad and accept the good in a minister of God`s people....we are told to stay away from em if they do what vp did.....we are told that the guys that did what he did have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. What you are asking us to do cid .....is in complete oposition from what scriptures tell us.

You know why they are called FALSE prophets??? It`s because they LOOk like prophets...they SOUND like prophets....they probably can sling the scriptures with the best of them.....there is only one way the scriptures tell us that we can identify them....examining the fruit in their lives.... Yeah wierwille taught scriptures....so what?? Look what he did and quit excusing the significance of the fruit evidenced in order to continue to lend him credibility.

If wierwille had presented himself as he truly was.....and said hey boys n girls I have this GREAT class...some of you are gonna like it...some of you are gonna have to serve me sexually...some of you will lose your children...some of you will have your marriages destroyed ..some of you will be required to abort your unborn children...and some of you who follow my doctrine are actually going to have to die..... Instead....he presents himself as a minister who is going to teach us ALL the answers to life and Godliness....the path to a more than abundant life....etc... To me the analogy of a wolf becomes very very appropriate. I just can`t fathom God putting us in harms way...it would make him untrustworthy. I don`t know if that helps explain why it is hard for those who were marked for destruction to hear God being praised for this man and his doctrine.

Well...ok...I will try to put this in perspective....When someone says... praise GOD for vic wierwille...or praise GOD for pfal....and you are one of the ones that he destroyed...or you watched a sister or brother lose their life because of what he did personally or eronious doctrine that he taught.....It seems like God is being assigned blame for what happened to you...there are huge trust issues....where was God for me? why did THIS person deserve to be delivered...and others of us have our lives unalterably damaged???? We ALL arrived with the same eagerness to believe...the desire to serve him...The purity of heart to come to know HIM better.....and IF God was responsible for vpw...he must then be ALSO responsible for what happened to us too. You are thanking GOD for the man who raped your sister....You are thanking GOD for the doctrine that when being followed cost your dear friend her husband and her children their father..... Ok...but IF you read the scriptures...if you read about a wolf....how in the scenario...he dons the skin of a sheep....why??? so that he LOOKS and SMELLS like a sheep...he ACTS like a sheep ...he HAS to be well disguised...no growling or licking of chops as he aproaches the flock.... he has to pass AS a sheep in order to get close enough to slaughter the lambs...he talks sheep....bleats and probably grazes to fool em...when the sheep relax around him...lower their guard he then is free to slaughter and devour...maybe only showing himself to a select few so that the others around him dont` get alarmed and leave...his success relies directly upon his secrecy. WHY?? because as a wolf...IF he were to appear as himself....he would be spotted from far off and the flock would have run to the safety of the shepherd.... When you look at the evidence o vp`s life....when you read in the scripures...what the attributes of a man of the flesh are...and you have first hand witnesses to these behaviors in vpw....yeah you might have seen an attribute or two possibly of the spirit...but I think those few things might have easily been faked as part of his sheeps skin disguise....far and above the fruit in his life is adultery, drunkeness...etc... Now it makes sense...a false prophet that has come to steal...to kill and to destroy....THEN the drugging and rapes make sense...THEN the destroyed lives...the actual deaths make sense...and those of us who were deeply hurt in twi don`t have to wonder why God would use this man to bless some and allow you to be raped at his hands. I can only say that in coming to grips with wierwilles true fleshly nature....for some of us....it makes it safe to trust God again...to know that God wouldn`t put someone in our path that would cause death to us. It makes it safe to trust him again....

It`s only derailed in your opinion because you don`t like the answeres given to the question asked...which makes accusations of a derail ACTUALLY the real derail :) You only see the first part of the question because that is all you want to see....you want to be mad at people for answereing the second part of the question AS well as the first....that is silly.

:)

Sorry you can`t handle people not answering the question to your liking...shrug....I repeat, like it or not.....there were TWO parts to the threads question...*DO we still believe it*....the answere is NOPE and heres why.....so sorry that hacks you off friend.

Come into chat and tell me all about it....or is it more fun to derail a thread because of your personal dislike rather than the facts at hand?

I wish that he HAD been the man that you wanted him to be....there would be a whole lot less messed up people in the world today :(

You know??? EVEN if all of those things you said about me were true....which is pretty silly....as eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil as you accuse me of being...lol ... I must admit that I have never ONCE been tempted to rape anybody nor drugged anybody nor deliberately shattered a life that I know of...I am not an alcoholic...I don`t steal from people in the name of God....I am not an adulterer.....those are just the sins witnessed by posters on THIS thread..... .I think maybe your venom oughtta be directed at the man who did these things in the name of God....and destroyed hundreds if not thousands of lives.. I just think your mad because the man you put your trust in flunked every known test in the bible that would indicate that he was *of the spirit*

Jean sweety, why not meet me in chat? Maybe you will find that I am not the person that you think I am. I think that you are just mad because what the scriptures reveal about vpw...I am sorry about that. He had a chance to do great good....he chose instead to harm...shrug

Cause Geer got lcm to sign over the copy rights or something to the way of great brittain if I remember properly. That was when lcm was agreeing with geer about everything.

I am the one who said that Jean...not excathedra... I am simply going by galations chapter 5 that states that those who have done what vpw are of the flesh and shall have NO inheritance in the kingdome of God....so sorry that passage doesn`t jive with what you want to believe...I`ll be darned if I can understand why that makes you mad at me. I also base my question of his lack of EVER having been a man of the spirit by the way he repeatedly drugged and raped the sheep of the flock....hmmm lessseee....scripturally we are told to look for the fruit to identify one another....drunkeness..adultery...rape...oops he failed THAT test too... VPW does however, fill the requirements nicely of a man of the flesh...he does fit the description of a false prophet to a *T*.....and he definitely behaved as a ravening wolf cleverly disguised in sheeps clothing, seeking whom he may devour....oh dear, but that isn`t what we WANT to believe now is it??? Lets not let scripture interfere with what you want to believe of a man whom you have probably never met nor had much exposure to.

Sunesis....I absolutely agree with every single thing that you wrote. What you said , has bothered me through the years. I think that may be the missing ingredient in our twi formula that let evil slip in and hurt so many of us. That being said....So how do we get to know Jesus? He has always been some guy hanging out with God....not someone that was part of my life or thoughts as anything other than a teacher in the scriptures.

(((Dot))) There is an author/comedian that I used to love to listen to. She used to say...God uses *cracked* pots.... Maybe your experience is what makes you so compassionate and kind in your ministering to others? Maybe your own feelings of vulnerability is why you are such a ferocious advocate for animals and you go the extra mile to get them treatment and homes when every body else thainks that it is too much trouble??? I think God works in you to help strengthen others.... Please don`t refer to yourself ...someone that I admire so much....as damaged goods....it hurts me.

:blink: wow... Dot THAT explains a hell of a lot... Amen Smarter... Love God and Love your neighbor, the two great commandments were forgotten :(