rascal

All right smart alecs who don`t want us annalysing his life........why do the scriptures tell us that we will know one another by the fruit? Why would we be told to examine the fruit in a persons life to evaluate their spirituality or lack there of...if it weren`t imprtant? You got a problem with folks doing as the scriptures direct???

Least I can`t be accused of dragging THIS thread off topic :) I`ll add that his own wife was heard to say of him on the day of his funeral, *He was a mean, mean man*

Eyes...the people that knew him as a teenager and young man...said that he was a bully...that he was trouble.... He married his wife in secret when they were supposed to be away at college....thta seemed sneaky to me.... I have always been struck how he made his wife leave their few weeks old infant to go to india... He had an *in you face* attitude to his denomination....and deliberately preached what they asked him not to speak on.... He had no confidence in the guy who led him into speaking in tongues untill the guy was inexcusably rude to his wife. (I have to question THAT guys spirituality, as frankly that flies in the face of every scripture pertaining to how we are to treat one another) He was alleged to have been thrown out of his church for sexual improprieties with his secretary.... He was a serial adulterer...he was a smoker and an alcoholic...he found ways to make this scripturally acceptible..... I`d have to say that to me....it seems like he spent his whole life looking for formulas and knowledge to increase his spiritual power.....I never once saw it as an inside heart rendering , life impacting change of the new birth. I think he thought he knew...I thuink that his knowledge puffed him up and convinced him that he was right.....but in his heart...he was cold calculating and cruel.... Sure he was nice to the people that he liked....but scriptures say that is easy... I don`t think he was ever right on the inside where it counted or he couldn`t have convinced himself that it was ok to do what he did.....it takes a brokewn individual to drug and rape and then lie and slander to protect ones self.

and WORSE...after he won their trust...offered em hope....used em ...he threw these souls away like so much trash :( Sick pervert doesn`t even BEGIN to describe it grrrr

I think that he might have even believed in what he was doing. As I have read back through his life.....everything that he did seemed to be in search to find a way to say what he thought was right. All things are lawfull....all parts of the body the same...all the women in the kingdom.... He looked for teachings and scriptures that could be tortured into making it biblically justifiable the things that he wanted to do. I have an uncle that is like this...a serious alcoholic that drives everybody nuts...but his mastery of the scriptures allows him to do as he damned well pleases without guilt. He may very well have been the most decieved of us all.

Well..it seems like pfal...was the foundation or the spring board into the teachings that caused such harm. It is very hard to discern what is good and spiritually healthy from that which was utlized to enslave people. I think Evan made a good point about a little leaven, leaveneth the whole loaf.

Eyes that is seriously cool.

Sorry about that....Thanks for picking up the slack word wolf :)

Funny story I heard on Paul Harvey one day....Russel Crowe...you know the big tough looking guy on the movie gladiator?? He went into a bar in mexico (I think it was).....and he was attacked and being beaten....his friend came to his rescue, repelled his multiple attackers and then proceeded to clear out the entire bar when it turned into a brawl.... The rest of the story??? His *friend* was a blackbelt not to mention his GIRL friend!!!

I personally thought that it was pretty creepy to percieve a woman who takes classes and learns to protect one self as vengefull... Eyes, I am harmless...lol actually the style I study...it is all about block and counter...in other words they have to attack first.....I seriously doubt tht I could initiate a strike.... In other words..I am the gal you want by your side....

Well galatians 5 brands any who do as he did as a man of the flesh and states that those that do what he did shall not inherit the kingdom of God....period A genuine Christian, not to mention minister does not participate in the drugging and raping of flock. A genuine Christian, not to mention minister does not indulge in wholesale adultery to the point of inventing a doctrine to make it acceptible. A genuine Christian, not to mention minister wouldn`t savage an innocents reputation and destroy their lives .. A false Prophet LOOKS like prophet...SOUNDS like a prophet...but is a dangerous individual that we are warned repeatedly to stay away from.... Evidence points to Wierwille as a lying, drunken, serial adulterating, rapist...One who thought nothing of coldly destroying a persons reputation and credibility, deliberately alienating their family members from them. Hmmmm...Looking at the wholesale slaughter of so many lives at his hands ....and taking into account those destroyed by the ministers he taught....the swath of destruction and even death cut in so many peoples lives....AND the direction his ministry has taken south......I`d have to say morally and scripturally vpw fits the bill as a wolf in sheeps clothing. But hey that`s just me.

My 4 oldest children and I are varying degrees of brown belt, many of us will test for black in nov. My younger kids are under colors...my 7 yr old is up to orange already. The confidence we have gained has allowed us to render aid in situations where every one else was standing by helplessly. It is a good thing :)

You have a problem with ladies being able to take care of themselves Bumpy? You think that this is something twi *did* to us...like being able to protect ones self is a bad thing?? I think that it just makes perfect sense to have as many *tools* available to defend ones self as is possible in todays world. Do you think for one second that I want my daughters vulnerable? Do you think I ever want my sons to have to cower helplessly while themselves or someone they love is assaulted?? I personally think that self defense should be a required subject all through grade school. My sensei sat all of the students down one time....He is a staunch Christian....He said that he taught karate in hopes that he could not only help intill the morals in a child so that hopefully when needed that they would have the character to stand up for what was right ...not only for themselves but others....and the ability to do so as well. This struck me as an honorable goal...how many times had evil succeded because nobody had the ability to stand against it???

Thanks Dooj....I just cannot understand why someone would deliberately deny a person God`s blessing with attacks....or to deliberately obstruct healing that is taking place for another....to conciously try to hurt another.....I just don`t get that kind of orneriness :( I guess since I cannot fathom you or your nor understand your motives larry, I`ll just put you on ignore. Thank you Dave...I don`t understand it. I only know that the determination to inflict pain is bewildering :(

??? I asked you that question in all earnestness. Why WOULD a christian think that it was alright to act that way?? Is it pfal doctrine that makes this otherwise creepy behavior somehow acceptible?? and why would it matter one bit when I signed out of chat??? How totally freaking wierd ... I had been there for close to an hour and finished speaking with all there and bid them goodnight....... I don`t understand your point at all ... Sometimes I keep two windows open and post and chat at the same time gasp!!! .......gulp I MUST be posessed :blink: Larry, my guess is that your sole purpose here is to disrupt an otherwise productive discussion, I wish that you would examine yourself, examine your motives, determine what it is in you that makes you believe that it is ok to mistreat people

Now THERES a brilliant quote!!!

Larry, do you have anything of value to contribute? Why do you think it is ok to be disruptive and nasty? Is this behavior a product of adherence to pfal doctrine?

Nope got things to say... points to make.....you see only what you wanna see Larry.

Dot...you said it well. We have people going through some mighty tough stuff, we have people getting healed from some mighty tough stuff....and yet....you have people who want to discount and discredit both ....worse trying to deliberately derail the progress being made with inane talk about golf....WHY of WHY would you begrudge someone the kindness of a sympathetic ear?? WHY would you try to shut the people up whom are doing the ministering?? Why would you deliberatly obstruct the goodness of what is being accomplished by God on this thread??? You guys just don`t see how cruel you are...it is bewildering....I can only surmise what it is in you that causes such callousness...such blindness to the harm that you cause :(

I too am at a loss as to why anyone would think I wouldn`t rojoice at God`d goodness to any single one of us. One of the most clear cut miracles I ever swa happened to me while I was in twi........ I have a friend that I admire greatly because of her spiritual wallk....she is awsome....she is also a mormon.. I have another good friend...we have learned and grown together as christians...I have seen God work mightily in her life...she is a staunch catholic... I have a friend who is an agnostic...her child drown...her baby was found by a two year old that refused to give up when the adults wouldn`t listen...she percevered untill someone would listen....the babies lifeless body was pulled from the water...no vitals...someone preformed cpr....she lived...I rejoice that God was at work in that situation... The way I see it...God works and I thank him for it no matter how spiritually bankrupt the organization that we chose to involve ourselves with and within whatever perameters we set up within which we will allow him to work. It was un ugly thing to say `cid.....

Probably...lol but is that a BAD thing ;)

OMG what a powerfull way to describe what happened to us ... :blink: ..

(((((((((((((((Belle)))))))))))) smooche :) I have missed you.

Lol..thanks Cat...I knew that I had these traits...I din`t understand why....I just thought I was nuts...doomed to a life of struggling to not let the anxiety and self esteem drag me under. To recognise WHY I am this way...that I wasn`t born damaged...I don`t know how I can explain how freeing this is to me. All I can say is thank you...thank you for being part of the healing and answeres....I can`t explain how timely that this is...I can only tell you that the information that you and others have presented on these threads...has dove tailed precisely into what I was being prepared for...can I say that I think that it was God??. I can`t explain it...I can only hope that you get a glimpse of the good that has been accomplished of people being part of the hands and feet of God....in at least ONE life here. Nope eyes..not a stretch...I get it...that is pretty close. Agreed martial arts is really really good for removing the feelings of helplessness. I`d love to tell a story about that...but isn`t applicable to this thread.

Lol...if you can ASK if you are brain washed...lol that is a healthy sign :)