rascal

Obviously you DO or are you just generally this disagreeable? Who gets glorified? who gets the praise?? I dunno..why not ask these questions of Jesus when he was confronting the religious leaders of his day who were hurting people? I would ask of you...who gets glorified and gets praised when you act so ugly to those here whom you CAN see??

Why does information about vpw make you so uncomfortable Larry? Why is it so important to you personally to obstruct the truth concerning his behavior? Why are you more offended with people who talk about what he did rather than be outraged with him for actually doing these things?? Why would any person of character, integrity, and honesty wish to hide this mans misdeeds?

What is up? Can I answer any equine related questions for you?

Who moved my cheese is a classic.

I posted this on the abortion thread....but it mirrors my feelings hear as well. How many have been sacrificed indeed sad.gif All in the name of God. I keep wondering how God felt when We brokenly complied with something that we believed so wrong...submitted ourselves to the most brutal of treatment...required to turn our backs on our fallen brethren....turned out family members in need...even throwing children to the streets... How did God feel watching us suffer because HIS name was invoked?? Do you think he was applauding? Do you think that he even cared?? Was he there crying with us at the betrayal? I wonder if God grieved with us as we brokenly complied with what was demanded in his name? I remember speaking in tongues like crazy and running scriptures through my mind frantically to shut up the voice that was screaming inside while I forced myself to do that which was required.

You`re welcome shifra, as have your posts and those of the participants on this thread been to me. Thank you all for contributing enough of the pieces of the puzzle for me to finally get a glimpse of the over all picture. I think this thread was the final piece of the puzzle....I get it...I understand now that you guys have put into words that communicate why things felt so wrong..... Thank you all. That seems so little to say for what has been recognised and finally understood....the freedom for me. I can finally say without reservation...I GET it!!

Amen Tbone....sigh

I wonder if God grieves.

I suppose that it struck me so forcibly post twi was that in this woman...I saw how it was SUPPOSED to work with God. It wasn`t about witnessing and running classes and trying to do as many works as we could to stay in his will. It was about having him to lean on for strength in times of trial. Knowing that in spite of how awfull things look...that he is there with us...that he will see us through...that we can safely trust ... he isn`t conditional according to whether or not we have operated all of the formulas and principles correctly.

What I like about it is that it true.....this gal had grit...and God saw her through.

It won`t be in any book store. It will have to be found on line. http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm I found it. It looks like they might have republished it. They give a much better synopsis than I do. Jim and Elsie Doig had Confidently invested in a future together on a Montana ranch. Then in 1940 Jim was fatally injured, leaving Elsie a young widow without much experience of the world. Overnight she had to learn how to fend for herself and her five small children, including two sets of twins. None to Give Away is the story of her struggle to support her brood while running a gas station and teaching school, to maintain a log home on Dry Creek and turn rented quarters into a home, to cope alone with all the minor catastrophes incidental to raising children. And to do it all without neglecting her own needs.

How many have been sacrificed indeed :( All in the name of God. I keep wondering how God felt when We brokenly complied with something that we believed so wrong...submitted ourselves to the most brutal of treatment...required to turn our backs on our fallen brethren....turned out family members in need...even throwing children to the streets... How did God feel watching us suffer because HIS name was invoked?? Do you think he was applauding? Do you think that he even cared?? Was he there crying with us at the betrayal?

You have domesticated cows who stand quietly to be milked while placidly eating their feed. You have range cows that have to be trapped, tied, and attempt to milk while dodging horns that are trying to gore you, kicks that can kill....bucket overturned and spilled when the eager calf is trying to fight you for his share... This cow and calf were one of the few left after her husband died and the herd had to be liquidated to cover debts.... Nobody milks a range cow...except this crazy woman who was determined to have dairy products for her children. I can only recommend this as probably the most influential books I have ever read. It is an older book, probably published in the 70s ... I got it quite by accident (?)...it was one of the books on my grandmas shelf that got sent with the set of zane gray books I requested when she died. I found a three used copies through alibris.com and bought every copy I could find to share with friends. ANother book I read and enjoyed very much was one called *living like a kings kid* cannot remember the authors name...but it is his personal story about deliverance ...he was an alcoholic.

My all time favorite inspirational book is one called *none to give away* It is a true story about a woman who in the early 1940s ...was widowed with 5 children under 4 yrs old...(2 sets of twins and a single birth) It was about how people insisted that she must give up the children for adoption... It is an astonishing book about a woman who had to rely on God through the most heartbreaking of circumstances... There was no well fare back then, no food stamps....nobody to rely on but God... She was a school teacher in the winter, but moved to a rural location and grew a garden in the summer to can all of the food they would eat in the following winter. She milked a wild cow for dairy products for the kids... Cool cool lady. I reread her story any time I feel like my plate is a little too full, or I doubt God`s faithfullness. I invariably come away thinking ...MY problems are mighty small potatoes....lol

[quote name='polar bear' date='Aug 15 2007, 09:36 PM' post='359041' I want to know do others here think their joy and peace in life has been better since leaving twi? AB-SO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY There is no comparison the joy filled, accomplished life I live now. Yeah sure, I fall on my bu tt now and then...I fail and fall short of my goals occasionally....the thing is...there generally isn`t anybody to kick me while I am down...as was so prevalent in my twi life. Life is good outside of twi :)

Eagle, to me the point isn`t was it right or was it wrong...but the fact that abortion was presented as that which GOD required of me. I could go against a lot of things...but I was afraid of going against God.

It isn`t hear say when I heard it first hand...to bad so sad that my experience doesn`t jive with what you would like to believe wth. The people that told me that an abortion was required ...that told me all of the things I listed above...INCLUDING the teaching about the cells.....were placed on the bot that year...is that high enough up the food chain to gualify??? I`d say that if the bot`s were teaching it...that kind of sets the standard of what is officially taught. Course...unless you were a woman that was pregnant and in the corpes or wow program you never heard this particular little gem.

Waysider you NAILED it :( Over the top??? I don`t think so...when people make their comments about being liars or perpetually whining victims or psychotic attention seekers... (yes I have been called all of those things) it reads...has the same impact ..the kick in the gut that the comments you wrote.... Thank you guys who understand. I mean it What might be merely an intellectual exercise for some, or just another chance to slap down an irritating poster....for others on the recieving end is about deep hurt that just doesn`t go away. These situations and discussions aren`t a pi$$ing contest and who is right and who is wrong......who ever yells the loudest or gets in the best digs wins....this is about peoples hearts.... I think I read where a person once said....next time I will take my boots off before I stomp across your heart.

It makes me very sad because these victims ....the ones that don`t see anything wrong...are the ones that won`t ever get any better :(

This is a real sore spot with me.... The ba$tards taught us that God almighty REQUIRED us to murder our unborn children :( The pigs taught us that obediance to leadership was also required by God in order to be in his will..... The low life scum insisted that there was no other alternative if one wanted to remain under God`s protection and in his will.... There was no *out*...you brokenly complied with their direction...why they knew where to go...could make the appointments....offered to pay...bless their hearts...this was a GOOD thing...and once you were carried there..... This is one thing that can`t EVER be fixed...you can`t make this all better... no do overs and this time get it right. They are unconscionable liars...this was wrong on so many levels.

Yeah..I heard that it was soul life that entered with first breath....until then...they were just paracitical cells... They steered very clear of the passages where mary`s cousin`s babe recognized Jesus and lept in the womb...Both of those womens *fruit* were called *babes* I`d like to see twi people refer to the unborn Jesus as a *bunch of paracitical cells*

Oh yeah and some ignoramous told me that the life was in the blood...they reckoned that was why we weren`t aliveuntill we took our first breath...the oxygen was introduced....dumb a$$ what do they think the umbillical chord for???

Bull SHEET they didn`t teach that the fetus was not alive. You lie WTH... Perhaps one only heard the official teaching when a person got pregnant in the corpes....even app. corpes... One was taken to where the scriptures differed in the penalties between murder and causing a woman to lose their fruit....*see see God doesn`t see that baby as alive* The scriptures where then shown...adam took his first breath...*see he wasn`t alive* ... One was then told that it was nothing more than a bunch of cells...paracites that could not survive without the host....like cancer... You were then showed the passages of what happened to people who didn`t honor their vows to God and how they died... You were then told that in signing up to go into the corpes or wow...that YOU had made a promise....a vow to God.... Then the reproof was ended with being scornfully asked if you were willing to allow a bunch of paracitical cells, that weren`t even alive.... to cause you to lie to God??? Were you ready for the consequences of breaking your vow?? If per chance the child were to be born, it would in all likelyhood be deformed...yadda yadda... Bull CR@P they didn`t teach that the baby wasn`t alive before it took first breath...I have been there heard THAT and most unfortunately BOUGHT that..It was our limb leaders who later became bot `s...that insisted that abortion of the not yet living fetus must not allow me to break my vow.....ans YES had I not been able to pay for it....they would have ponied up the 500 bucks needed....your abs at work Kansas believers :( I will assume that they knew what twi`s *official* stance was on things.

I LOVE how Suda tries to look at all sides of the argument fairly and is patient and kind in explaining her point of view... Dooj is good at this also.

Suda, thanks for making the effort to understand where I am coming from. Contrary to popular belief...lol I am NOT out on some personal vendettaagainst vp/twi...in questioning you....these are the questions that I myself am asking.... How COULD God lead one of us to be blessed and one of us to the same group to die? Why wasn`t the one who died protected? How could God get credit for leading one of us to vpw to learn something and another to him to be drugged and raped?? What I am asking is WHAT in vpw`s life would give any indication that he wasn`t a false prophet....a wolf in sheeps clothing...a man of the flesh with no inheritance in the kingdom of God?? Just because we liked what scripture that he didn`t manage to butcher into some self serving doctrine... What I am saying is....a false p[rophet has to look an awfull lot like a real one in order to succede in fooling anybody and leading them away from God. I believe that coming to grips with what he was...with what he taught us is important in understanding what needs to be re examined. Suda...I love that you and I can talk about this as reasonable people. That you and I have a friendship built on mutual respect and admiration. I am glad that we can discuss these issues. I am glad that you are patient with me and share what you find so that I can grow and be a better person. Love you girl...please keep me informed on what you find in your studies. I am very interested.