rascal

I saw nothing distorted about Tom`s list Mike, you are lying if your assertion is that you haven`t said those things, and more.

Well what I DON`T like, is she made a comment about some groups dissaproving of the story because they were about witches, that now they would REALLY have something to talk about....seemed to me like kind of an *in your face* christians...:( It was like she was looking to deliberately offend people. I am just really dissapointed. I have enthusiastically recomended these books for YEARS ...claimed that there wasn`t anything blatantly evil or threatening to christianity.....A great read, an inspiration to get children hooked on reading...now I feel ...I just don`t know...dirty...betrayed I don`t know, I thought I was over being a homophobe, but with the reaction that I am having...I am guessing that I have some work to do yet. My kids were shocked and disgusted as well...I am going to have to figure out why it matters so much. It can`t be JUST the homosexuality issue, because I have read and enjoyed Ann Macafferty`s Dragon rider series and been able to stomache the gay characters and sexual life styles that are in her stories. Maybe it was because it was right up front from the very beginning. :(

oooh ICK....sigh After years and years of being a HUGE fan.....I read yesterday that Rowling said Dumbledor was gay...that he was in love with grindenwald...blech Grrrrr..... I KNOW that it shouldn`t matter ...sigh but I have to admit it does alter my perception and feelings.

(((waysider))) I know. I feel like I inadvertantly lured people in. It was my honesty, my zeal, my integrity that sold people on the idea that twi was a spiritually wholesome group. We were the cammoflage that the evil hid behind.

Understood...it WAS blatant manipulation. You didn`t find out that it was considered an unbreakable vow that you would be accountible to God for untill after you had applied. That was how it was presented to me Belle.

Who swore an oath??

That has got to be the single dumbest statement dismissing wierwilles culpability as a serial adulterating rapist that I have ever read.

Woah woah WOAH...wait just a darned minute...ALL men are born with a sexual predatory nature???? I think that you just trashed a hell of a lot of really great men whom are NOT predatory rapists...including my husband and my wonderfull upstanding sons. This behavior is NOT a problem for a genuine Christian, a man of the spirit such as galatians describes. VPW doesn`t pass the test, of being of the spirit...not even close. As far as solomon?? of course he WAS a man of the flesh...DUH....spirit wasn`t available back then...even so...we never read about him drugging raping, breaking his vow to his wife...there IS no valid comparison.

B.S......YOU only took a part of that sentence to make it say what you wanted it too...not honest at all oldies, please use my quote in it`s entirety Four year commitment doest not equal a vow to God, (heres the part you conveniently left out) the breaking of which will bring possession and death.

Woah Goey, I`d laugh at that if it wasn`t so sad :( Thanks again wolf for cutting through the crap and putting the salient points together in a concise understandable manner.

Four year commitment does not equal a vow to God, the breaking of which will bring possession and death. You are twisting the wording of commitment and pledge to make what twi required appear acceptible.

That was your impression, no doubt oldies. Never the less it doesn`t line up with the facts. Comittment does not = vow=not completeing=lie to God=posession= death...shrug When I am making an irrevocable vow, a promise that must be kept or risk annanias and saphiras fate...I usually am quite aware of the gravity of the commitment. Heck I even took my promises when I signed the green card seriously. Like I said...the corpes application was presented as my opportunity to learn to serve God to the very best of my ability. I never dreamed that it meant that I must complete the program or become possessed and die. I would have never had the confidence to make that kind of commitment.

Offer suggestion my arse...more of your verbal gymnastics (to borrow a term) You have consistantly assaulted the character and veracity of the people here who HAVE come forth with personal first hand testimoney....then back peddled...who sweet lil ole me??? It sucks period...Adroitly phrasing your veiled insults and contempt for people who share what happened to them at the hands of vp and his leaders...those exposing twi`s evil doesn`t make your mean ness suck any less.

What in the world does keeping promises have to do with applying to go into the corpes??? There was no oath/promise/vow at the time of application. This was something that you were told that you had done AFTER the fact.

That was a nasty kick to the teeth for someone who went out of their way to provide information that you requested oldies... Not that I believe for an instant that you even wanted to know the truth....no doubt, you were once again scouting for ways to discredit people and bolster your theories excusing these men of the flesh.

I am still baffled even after all of this time as to why someone would try focus on the people victimized, rather than the man who so completely and utterly betrayed our trust. For heavens sakes...if the women had stripped themselves naked and were doing cart wheels back and forth in front of his bus....begging for the man of God to come out and bless them with his healing member....His actions STILL would have been heinous and wrong.... Even if God forbid I was a party animal slut that got exactly what she deserved....anything LESS than a comforting arm around the shoulders, with offers of compassionate councel from those who CLAIMED to be God`s representative..is simply inexcusable. Not that this was the case....we were told that GOD....not vp, not, twi, but GOD required this of us...that is what is so visciously cruel about the whole thing.... I mean who wants to disobey God?? Who wants to die because they are no longer under God`s protection???...or WORSE face the danger of becoming posessed by NOT complying with the man of God`s orders??? It was sick and it was wrong :( This propensity to try to make what vp and twi seem right by painting the ones who suffered at their hands as the wrong doers is to me completely incomprehensible.

I don`t know excathedra, I can only thank God that you did, or I might never have been free. You have made a huge difference for my family and myself. Thank you hardly seems adequate.

Well I DEFINATLY remember making my marriage vows...matter of fact...I still abide by them today nearly 21 years later. I also remember making both of my wow commitments and honoring THOSE promises. I just don`t remember making any vows when I filled out the corpes application. I certainly did not understand to not complete the program was to lie and die like annanias and saphira...shrug. Oldies, how come you got kicked out? Are you mad because the women had a chance to *fix* their little problems, and you weren`t given an option?

I don`t remember MAKING a vow...that is just it. I remember that I entered the program to become my best for God...I just don`t remember taking or giving any vows or promises. It was a stunning suprise that it was unbreakable and irrevocable.

Whatthehey, you pick one post out of context, ignoring what it is in response to, and use it as a spring board into one of your favorite rants. Oldies, your beliefs, and perceptions concerning me and MY beliefs are simply speculation at best, or base lies at worst. Having now carefully explained MY position and MY motives, you continue to mischaracterize them both...now you have moved out of the realm of speculation and placed yourself squarely in the camp of dishonesty.

I think that you are a liar then oldies, pure and simple, because I have now TOLD you exactly what the the corpes commitment was and how it was presented to me. I have TOLD you what happened to me. You still choose to substitue your own thoughts, emotions, and ideas for MY situation. NOW instead of merely speculating, you are just being plain dishonest.

How could YOU oldies, presume to be dealing with the facts about MY experience, or excathedras experience, marcias experience??? What could possibly qualify YOU to speak on what the reality of OUR situations were in twi???? Not to worry, *I* know, God knows, that is enough. In telling our story, maybe someone else will know and understand that they were not alone. Shame on you for assaulting others character and veracity, in your sneaky underhanded attempts to hide the reality of our life in twi. What kind of man are you? What kind of christian? What kind of brother? In short..you are not.

My understanding is that posters may express opinions of all kinds, no holds barred, as long as done with due respect. Sometimes these opinions can be very controversial and extremely emotional. But I maintain that we all are better off getting everyone's opinion out there on the table rather than dealing with some form of censorship. This is why I think the GS forums are such a great place to be. :) No holds barred? So that makes it ok to be deliberately hurtfull? These forums are great because you are allowed to behave as cruel and thoughtless as you please to your brothers and sisters in Christ with impunity..so long as you do it with respect?? You are playing a mean game here fella

Oldies, you just make me really really sad with your lack of understanding. Your villainization of the victims in order to excuse the perpetrators of such viscious and callous acts seems like a desperate attempt to not have to deal with the reality of vpw and twi.

You have no understanding of what it is like to have been mistreated and neglected during most of your life...to grow up feeling the shame of not being good enough. Then someone comes along and offers one ALL of the answeres to life and Godliness.... You want to hope again, hope that you can be a good person, a benefit to God, to humanity. You dare to believe that since these people are teaching the bible, that it is real, it is good, it is a direction in life where you can make a difference in todays world. These people gain your trust, they pretend to be decent and wholesom, to have your best interests at heart....maybe you don`t understand some of the more incomprehensible teachings or requirements, but you are taught to put those things on the back burner....that if you ar patient, God will show you. You dare to trust again, you dare to hope that you can have some worth, some value....THAT is why women went back against their better judgement .....THAT is why we shut down our emotions, ignored our pain, and brokenly followed the orders to abort.. We were too afraid of the alternative...a life without God. For many of us it was our last best hope for survival. If we didn`t have God...we had NOTHING. These cruel monsters masquerading as kindly ministers, fatherly images to those of us so hungry for meaning in our lives.....they cared absolutely NOTHING for our well being....they took that which they desired, utilizing the power of scriptures, and their status as spokesman for God to sate the lusts of their sick bellies. The people...and I am nor just talking about the raped women, the forced abortions, the broken families, the untimely deaths....All of us out there...the people who DARED to have hope this one last time...were crumpled up and thrown out as so much garbage when their usefullness was exhausted. These were sick cruel men....some came to vp depraved and cruel. and found an environment that they thrived in...., others he developed into the monsters they became.