rascal

Relax, Dooj, I was simply discussing the extremes and experiences of myself, my spouse and the people that we had contact with. Biblical sounding teachings to excuse and encourage extreme, offensive, unpleasant and at times dangerous behavior. Thus the *we* mentioned and my opinion as to why it led to mental illness...shrug I completely agree geisha

Well, I`d say that the way they made *attention to detail* an excuse to indulge in obsessive or controlling behavior, being *spiritually angry* to excuse fits of rage, *renewed mind* to encourage the shutting out of any contrary thoughts or individuality, obedience to leaders even when it was to our disadvantage or even dangerous could certainly lead us into unhealthy mental state. Yeah, I`d say that we became unable to make our own decisions, completely giving all power over to others, agonizing self recriminations whenever things went wrong because we were taught that we had blown it some how, always anxious trying to out manuver the adversary. The fact that we spent years after leaving awaiting the death and destruction from the adversary promised us...agonizing over where God wanted us to be and what was his will, unable to fit into the community, kind of gives one an idea the extent of the damage inflicted.

(((Grand daughter)) You put into words what so many of us have felt but cannot express. The longing to be good to be acceptable to God. Our stories are different, but that same sense of not being good enough, of unworthiness has plagued me also.

I think that this is well said tzaia. We aren`t qualified to fix or heal one another, but like waysider said, be darned if I didn`t manage to find healing here. Talking about what happened with other folks realizing that I was allowed to question, allowed to have a say in my life, in my marriage, in the raising of my kiddos...it was empowering. Without these discussional forums, I don`t know that I would have ever could have been able move on past the narrow confines of twi thinking.

Yeah Grand daughter, I do. Not as often any more, most of the time it is around the end of july, roa time. In most I am at the roa looking for old friends, I am always hoping that things have changed, that maybe we could go back. Sometimes I dream that I am on the wow field devistated to realize that I don`t believe it any more ... that I still have to fulfill my comittment of one year to God...lol one time during this dream, God told me that I was going to witness for him and secretly get people out .. one time we led a commando raid on hq to rescue mrs. W...etc Things trigger my dreams, topics here bring back unresolved issues....but as time passes, as I experience more life, the dreams grow more infrequent. You will too.

No one was psycho analyzing you, that`s a pretty silly claim.... I have to say that it does seems rather ironic that you point your finger of accusation at folks who participate here as doing something wrong or unsavory....that you are some how an expert, qualified to analyze, judge, and condemn folks....somehow omnipotent in determining what good is or is not being derived from Grease spot. What are your qualification to make these assessments Clay? What makes you think that it is your position to determine where God works and with whom? Why would you want to obstruct the benefits others find in this venue? Your insults and derision aside, my sadness for the limited scope of your understanding of what is accomplished and the caliber of the folks here was genuine.

Have you ever wondered what good is *the movement of God`s word*? I mean seriously, isn`t it the folks doin that who seem to feel the most entitled to ensnare, enslave, steal from, and violate using the name of God as their power source and the scriptures to justify their behavior? Doesn`t it seem like people keep trying to do the same thing most of the time with the best of intentions, whether it be twi of stfi over and over using the same formula and innocent people keep getting hurt? Maybe we have the formula wrong, or maybe the focus on US *moving the word* is misplaced.

Yeah, what THEY said.... Comparing participation here with the horrors of what was inflicted on us in the name of God, excusing the atrocities committed with scriptural justification that happened in twi shows a lack of compassion and understanding for folks and the devistation that resulted from these monsters sating their sick apetites :(. We spent decades subjected to this crap, carefully groomed to accept it and believe in the necessity of such abuse. It may take a life time to sort it all out.

Clay, I think that your post said an awful lot about how far you yourself need to go in your post twi recovery. Forgive me, but you seem stalled fella, unable to examine, analyze learn and grow, forever spinning your wheels in an attempt to live within the parameters of the prison constructed from the faulty doctrines of some very disturbed men. It takes much examination and consideration to recognize and come to grips with the fallacies of what we were taught. I am truly sad for you being stuck, forever unable to move beyond the boundaries of your religion :(

I am glad that you all are getting better. Gosh it is scary to read about this stuff. I have bad asthma too Bramble, but have never gotten a flu shot due to spouses distrust of vaccines. How did the x ray turn out? I think that I`ll break down and get this shot. I`ll have to wait for the current chest cold to abate though.

How are you guys all doing? Are you feeling any better yet?

Well, I don`t know about physical violence to others, but within the family, that I was told (and believed) to never give my husband a *reason* to lift a hand to me, that if he ever were to resort to violence, undoubtedly that it was my fault. I hadn`t known when to shut up, or hadn`t been sharp or whatever.

Not me, I guess that the only *truths* that I know and care about any more are pretty simple, love God and love my neighbor :) Anything else seems to me to be extraneous and a distraction. What do you think?

My my such insight.... Whoever made THAT statement has obviously never spent much time on a farm...lol Bulls, dogs, horses will mount darned near anything that stands still long enough. :)

Damned right Leafy Twig! We thought that we were joining a group that was going to teach us all of lifes anweres and Godliness. We thought that we were committing ourselves to a group that was trying to fight the spiritual battle, strike a blow against the adversary. We thought that the leaders were decent christians with morals and character, because of all of that, we trusted them with our lives :( Everything we thought and believed, we did because we were taught that it was God`s will. They took whatever they wanted from us in the name of God. If that isn`r the definition of a cult I don`t know what is. Garth, I disagree, I don`t know any other fundy christian groups that require sexual servitude, forced abortions, encourage abuse,and neglec, decide who you live with and where and even when and where you work. Bolshevik, maybe but many of us never dreamed of rebelling until told that Satan was at work in our parents, family and friends to keep us from the word, that this world was not our home but satans dominion.

(((Oakspear))) What a long strange trip it has been. I remember you before you left twi, how open and honest you were, how genuine you were in your attempts to bridge the gap. Twi missed a bet when they threw you out, you were loyal. Most of us would never have been brave enough back then to say what you did.

Holly, Mrs. was always nice and gracious when I met her as well.

Brilliantly said! I think that is why we saw alcoholism, abuse, adultery, basically anything that we wanted to do, we learned to justify and excuse biblically. I know one of our posters here told about being refused food on the wow field when out of work. I read of an account here at gs where a fellow was sick in res and the ptb`s decided that if someone was too sick to walk to the dining room, they were too sick to eat and the rest of the corpes were forbidden to bring him anything. I think the poor fellow lay in serious trouble for days before he was finally helped...(maybe by mrs w on a visit).

Met him once. He was cold, very very cold. Course I figured it was because I was such a spiritual worm :)

I suppose that if they tried to reintroduce it, they would be faced with having to recant so much of the *present truth* and *old wine skins* crap. I think also that old wineskins, was a way for lcm to diminish and dismiss any leaders or believers who`s previous experience contradicted him or confronted the idiocy of some of his policies. They would have to admit to being falible, that some of their policies and decisions lacked God`s stamp and approval. I think that they must be terrified to open any door that would allow folks to consider that a leader might make mistakes. Their iron fisted power lay in their requirements of implicit obedience to every leaders whim, because they were in tune with God. It must scare the hell out of them, the idea of people beginning to question, to require accountability.

Wow Shell, how really frightening. I remember getting deathly ill at a roa. I didn`t have a husband to take care of me. :( So glad that you had Bob there.

Umm..friend...uh ... No doubt, it is rather difficult to see past that beam protruding from your eye :(

Same here. The incidents that I witnessed were dismissed as isolated. Even when the sheet hit the fan, I thought that we should stay and fight for the ministry. Thankfully though, Spouse saw clearer than I, that it was broken beyond fixing.

:) never mind

Well now who doesn`t have a sense of humor? FYI, I didn`t call YOU stupid, I called the statement you made saying I didn`t like Grouch Stupid :) Either you were mistaken or you deliberately lied...shrug either way it was not accurate.