rascal

Welcome Tex!!! Congratulations on pulling through and building for yourself a great life! Our lives and successes are to be all the more savory in light of what we went without, what we enured. Can`t wait to read your book.

Bumpy...were you ever actually in the way corps?

Were our lives in twi so bad??? In a word.... YES!!! Maybe not yours...but my sister in christ here at the cafe was drugged and raped by vpw. My other sister was visciously slandered for not participating....she was 17 and lost everything...yeah in my opinion vpw was evil incarnate :( My brother in christ chose to die when lcm wouldn`t let his wife lcm`s lover leave hq`s with him. My sister in Christ was marked and avoided when she refused to participate in a threesom with HIM :( My brother in Christ died when told to give up his meds....More than one of my sisters in Christ were raped when following leaders orders to hitch hike to lead or to give a creepy guy from twig a ride home...and then told not to press charges lest the ministry be blamed... My sister in Christ never recieved the medical attention after a lead accident ...she later died...My brother suffers life long physical imparement because of the same wreck.... Our children were aborted at leaderships command...our ailing family members ignored to die alone and abandoned.... Dave...do you have the COURAGE to read of these accounts?? Do you have the COMPASSION to understand the suffering endured at twi leaders hands?? Can you for one instant put aside your knowledge and for a moment place yourself in these peoples shoes??? You read these accounts...and then tell me if you really don`t think that life in twi was really so bad for some of us....grrrr. Untill you have read and acknowledged the pain inflicted upon innocent people who simply went to vpw and his ministry to be taught about God...get your finger of self rightious judgement out of the collective faces of people here at grease spot.... Untill you know what happened...you are in no position of authority to judge ANYBODIES actions or anger here, bud :(

I don`t know it could be me too...I understand how irritating it is when we go back and forth. I am at a loss as to how all of us can participate here without the free exchange of thoughts and ideas, without it offending someone. It`d be really nice if we could all post our points without attempting to discredit one another, or without the back handed snipes.

I didn`t see you as a bully at all Jeff...I saw you as being rightiously indignant, offended at the treatment of a brother or sister in Christ by folks who claim to be of the same body. The behavior is indeed bewildering. In pointing out how offensive, one would hope that the person willing to hurt would consider the words spoken....maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow...but maybe someday it will make sense. In the mean time the trick as I see it (this is not posted to you JeffSjo...but for myself) is to post ones thoughts, and try not to get dragged too far off on a tangent that will only annoy and bore everyone else reading :) (granted an area that I struggle with personally lol)

OK Dooj, I am glad, I really am trying to understand. Maybe this is my time to shut up and assume that it is for somebody elses understanding...I don`t necessarily have to get it :) Peace?

JeffSjo.... Don`t let folks rile you friend You show a lot of compassion in your posts...just keep presenting that ..it`s your style, and you just never know who will be touched by it. Some times if people are really ornery or who post for no other reason than to discredit simply need to be ignored. I figure each of us is in need of God`s continued grace and healing....we never know when we are a part of someone elses healing...when our words typed are just the words needed to put the pieces together for another. Sometimes, the poster I find the absolute most irritating to me personally, I find out later will have been the very one that provided the blessing and healing for another :) I have also found to my shock that the leaders that I adored, the ones that I had pegged as the *good guys* were indeed another posters nightmare in twi.... Everyones perspective is valued by me (yes really) :)

I didn`t take it as judgemental dooj...honestly, I am just trying to understand. I am all about trying to see the bigger picture. I still don`t understand what you are saying though....who do you want to be quiet? The people offending John and Dove? John and dove? I am honestly perplexed as to who in your opinion is the offender. Who do you want to be silent? I don`t think that John or Dove intend to... Do the rest of us not talk about what happened because it offends those who want to hold fast to their beliefs?? Or that it isn`t pleasant to hear about and remember??? Do we allow people to claim that our experiences never really happened? Who honestly knows which post might open the crack in that armor that will allow the love of God to shine through.... There is a lot of healing and understanding going on here in spite of the active obstruction by those who wish to silence those who suffered under the atrocities committed by this ministry and the doctrines used to justify and sanctify the behavior. All I am saying is, don`t discount the good that is occuring here, or the value of any poster simply because it isn`t readily apparent to everyone. Seriously...this is a growing process for all of us....I believe that with all of my heart.

I don`t get you Dooj. Who in your opinion is the offender and who is the offendee? Sometimes there is just more going on than what is readily apparent on the surface. Sometimes God is at work in a particular way for a particular person at a particular time...and everybody looking on, is NOT necessarily going to understand. That is why we need all of us ....our input, our understanding, our unique pov`s aquired from the path of learning God has guided each of us down since departing twi :)

Dave, I am baffled when anybody ISN`T deeply angered over the betrayal by our leaders. To NOT be outraged by the crimes committed against us, our brothers and sisters, our children...is to me unfathomable. These people used God and the scriptures to commit atrocities on innocent people. I guess it is all in ones perception....where you see whining and bitterness...I see rightious anger at the people who raped, stole, and killed in God`s name....kind of like the anger Jesus portrayed when he tossed the tables and chased out the people in the temple who were using God`s temple for their personal gain at the expense of the people who were legitimately there. Oh.... and I don`t think you were in the same ministry I was in if you didn`t learn to visciously attack a person, to destroy, a persons credibility, their dignity, their confidence, their very soul :(

Awww Tom, I didn`t know anybody`d caught me What a riot, Thanks!

Oh damn waterbuffelo...That is heart breaking to hear. I am so ashamed that I promoted such an evil organization :(

Don`tWorrybehappy, Thank you. It cannot be said any clearer than that.

I got a ham radio license.. in 1993. It's what "coulda been" thirty years ago.. I am a stones throw from a bachellor's in mathmatics and chemistry.. It's what coulda been, twenty some years ago.. Well done Mr. Hamm! Rascal got the black belt.. I feel like I have indeed moved forward since leaving :) The only FEW that seem to be going nowhere.. unless I just don't know enough details.. are those who staunchly choose to REMAIN in the past.. bound by the "shadows of a few great(?) names", bound by an arcane doctrine or set of doctrines that only those here can understand. Going from one offshoot to another, one "great" name to another.. That is how it has appeared to me as well. There are a lot of folks that went back to school and got their education, started successful businesses and careers.

Well said Chockfull!

Didn`t call anybody a liar???? Lemmeee refresh your memory Right here........ Right, Another undocumented doctrine Of course how convenient, I should have known........... and......... Second no matter the regions ,pick one? I still have yet to find someone other than those in the GreaseSpot region that seem to remember this doctrine. I find that interesting........... and....... No One I have found has the same story as you. I find it interesting that people with axes to grind daily here also are the only ones who mysteriously heard these undocumented doctrines..... I would just would like to see some documentation ,verification by someone other than the person complaining. It's easy to claim anything if you don't have to produce any accountability. and....... Sorry if the meaning of the word gets in the way of someone's agenda. But that's the way it is. It's speculation until proven and should be referred to as such until such time as there is adequate proof of fact. and here we are being compared to criminals and murderers testimoneys who lie to save their arse.... Anyone that routinely deals with multiple stories of how events unfolded knows that one does not take the word of the participants at face value. Of course the robbers will tell you they did nothing wrong the others will chime in and agree. So does the policeman just shrug and say oh gee they are hurting I better just believe them. Hardly.... It's commen sense to know that until an accusation is provable it is not truth. Recently Mr. Vick was an alleged dog abuser some said he was, some said he was not. I'm sure his family said he was a good boy do we just believe them because they are hurting? Nope He got his day in court and the allegations were proved at that point they were no longer alleged but factual accusations. that’s how the process works if you want to make allegations about someone you best be prepared to prove your assault I've previously explained what a fact is refer to prior post. Until that time it is an opinion an should be referred to as such not a given truth until documented. and.......... You get the point here is documentable doctrine of the Way, is it any wonder people scrach their heads when some contrary thing appears an of course just must be believed on faith? There couldn't be any other reason why someone would just say such a thing. Dove....you attack my veracity, you accuse me of lying, and you accuse me of having an agenda .....all for simply relating what happened to me, what I was taught to justify the treatment, and the teaching used to ensure my submission and compliance....All in the name of truth...and NONE of which was even remotely Godly. You are the one with an agenda to shut people up that present the side of twi that makes your religion look bad.

Mike, you left one very important fact in your summation....when dove hadn`t heard what potato and I and others were taught...he called us liars. News flash!!!! We were held to the standard whether it was verbal or written....See...we were taught that obedience to a leader was absolutely necessary whether the suggestions were written or oral, friend. The lack of love that was demonstrated by vpw, by his leaders, by those whom embrace his teachings even today.... lead me to believe that the doctrine is not spiritually wholesome.

(((((Nero)))) I am so sorry. :( My thoughts and prayers are with you right now.

Dove, what you do hurts period. The portrait you paint of me and others here is not accurate...and I think that deep down inside that you really know it. Justify, excuse, rationalize all you please....but it doesn`t change the end result of your behavior.

Well, some times too...I find that in having to formulate the thoughts to have to counter the accusations..many times I become much clearer in my understanding. The thing is....in twi and for many years afterwards...people actually could shut me down with mean words...they could shame me into silence by accusing me of wrong doing....people could embarrass me into silence with personal attacks....it wouldn`t take much to draw me off on a tangent with deliberate misinterpretation of what I wrote and lead the crucifixion on what they SAY I said.... The cruel bullying made me a whole lot stronger person than I was when I left twi. It was a wonderfull day here when I realized that nobody could ever intimidate me into silence ever again with their dissaproval, or their brandishing of scriptures....or when they ganged up and tried to paint an unflattering picture of my life, my opinions, my mental in stability, and probable parental ancestry... These lessons have served me well in my personal day to day life outside of greasespot. I have had to learn to stand up and defend myself. I have learned to think my own thoughts and hold my own opinions while under attack, instead of slinking away with my tail tucked between my legs in intimidation.

You know John go ahead pick my post apart semantically....you know exactly what I was talking about....3 generations of kids forced to grow up without fathers, raised by struggling mothers ...because of the alcoholism. I wish that you would open your heart and compassion, rather than looking for reasons to attack and hurt. It is a testimoney to the damage twi doctrine causes. You are a casualty and don`t even know it.

Men usually drink because??? Tell me John, I`d like to know. To me after watching generations of my spouses families destroyed by alcoholism...After watching alcoholics destroy my sisters families my grandmothers family... Tell me what it is that would cause a person to do something that would be so detrimental to their family....that would destroy the people who love them the very most on this planet. Tell me why it is? It is a depth of weakness, selfishness and down right cruelty that I just cannot fathom. I`ll never understand why a drinker puts his enjoyment ahead of the good of their loved ones. The strange thing is....every alcoholic I have ever known has found a way to blame their drinking on something or someone else other than their own weakness.

Sorry for the momentary derail into a moment of nostalgia :)

Was that the book where one of the chapters was about the woman sitting on the washing machine to pleasure themselves during spin cycle?? Funny story....It was all the rage when we got out on the wow field....my wow sis` and I all read that book...and thinking the whole washing machine thing was just a riot.... one day....as a joke....somebody had showed me a nifty trick with a hand towel of folding and twisting until it unmistakably resembled an erect penis. Well I used a BATH towel..hee hee ....and manufactured this enormous penis and wrapped it around a bottle and placed it on the washing machine as a joke for my wow sisters when they came home from, work.......pretty darned funny eh?? NOT!!!! Our LC came by for a visit while we were at work...my wow bro and the bc`s were showing him around our new house....g....gulp...you guessed it :( Word has it...he was NOT amused ...lol I was mortified...being the shy thing I normally was.

Eyes...aw HECK no, you didn`t offend me in the least, but thanks for asking..... I was just feeling a little hyper sensitive...that it was ammunition for those who have repeatedly blamed me through the years, claiming that I don`t take responsibility for my actions....yadda yadda...really, I wasn`t thinking of you at all when I wrote that :) We are cool. I find it funny too, that after all of theses years I feel so defensive of the t`s.