rascal

Do they have to go any where Simon? It happened, It is a part of who we are. Maybe those who suffered....maybe we don`t want anything. Maybe we are long over it...most of us I imagine don`t even want sympathy. Maybe it is important after decades of having dirty little secrets....keeping things *lock box* ...it is needed to just be ok to talk about. Nobody here is qualified to *fix* anything...to my knowledge. Words of encouragement are nice....but comments about seeking sympathy or being whiners to get attention are really out of line. I personally am not looking to any one here to provide answers or direction...that is something we do in real life. Yeah, the subject of abuse comes up periodically, So does every other subject, but for some reason...it is offensive ..for some reason this one makes folks uncomfortable or irritated.

I am honestly at a loss. I don`t know how to participate here any more. It`s like this little contingent has taken it upon themselves to discredit anyone who posts contrary to their liking. The post or information isn`t addressed, but rather what is wrong with you personally that you would hold that opinion. If you defend yourself against the accusations, it takes the thread off topic. If you ignore the posters that are trying to disrupt, the accusations get more rediculous and outragious....and you are persued from thread to thread...being sniped at. Defending yourself doesn`t work, fighting back doesn`t work, shutting up is what they want you to do :( Walk away from this site? I wrestle with that as well....would leaving be more beneficial for everyone? Is staying detrimental? I am open for suggestions.

If things were balanced and fair in twi ..there would have been no need for this sight. The thing is...I don`t think that anybody has ever denied that what Dove and Pond experienced happened. There were great times in twi...nobody stalks THEM post to post telling one horror story for every *positive* spoken about twi...nobody claims THEY are mentally ill or delusional, that THEY have an axe to grind :( It isn`t fair NOR balanced.

Danny, if what you say were true, it would make sense....an employee for twi would have monetary gain for their actions here. One could understand the rancor with which the posters were treated...one could understand his need to shore up twi`s reputation...the willingness to justify the assault on innocent. Dove is not however, so one can only speculate what motivates him to do what he does...but in my opinion, that would be as wrong as what Pond does in her psycho annalysis of me... or wait...was that your whole point??? A way of making a subtle point about them making crap up about people? Duh...sometimes I don`t cotton on very quick.

Dove WHY would I have an axe to grind??? For heavens sakes..I relate my experiences...I commiserate with those who relate theirs... WHY must you term this as an *axe* to grind*??? Being offended, outraged by the crimes committed against us, our brothers, our sisters, our children...that is not an axe to grind... Pond I do NOT try discredit posters...I don`t speculate as to why they are so cruel...What would cause them to be so viscious....what mental defect would cause them to hold their pov..... NOR do I do I question their personal character or integrity. NOR do I attack personally...That is what is so scary about you pond......What you say is completely out of character for me....the conclusions that you draw concerning me personally ...what you project into my posts....the mental illness that you are so fond of diagnosing me ...and then present to the board at large as some kind of educated professional.... is not only offensive, but really dirty. My experiences, my point of view offends you...rather than allow me to speak of my experiences, or be offended at the betrayal and mistreatment...you have to try to *fix* me... try to indicate that I am some how sick for holding that position. pond, that is just plain wierd. What is wrong with posting your pov concerning YOUR experiences and impressions...and allowing me to post mine. What makes you so nosy that you have to dissect me, my mental sate, my spiritual state for holding my position? What is it about you and Dove that require you to take to task anyone whom doesn`t share your pov? What is it about your religion that makes stalking and attack ok..making up lies to discredit people, because you cannot discuss the contents of their post on merit alone??? How does THAT fall under *love your neighbor*?? Is that what offends you?? That in claiming to be christian...I expect you to act like one??? Damned right you puzzle me, your behavior is hatefull and cruel...truly baffling to try to understand why one would behave this way. Contrary to your sick little annalysis, I DON`T enjoy the attention...

The Duke case is entirely irrelevant. That was one woman, an exotic dancer at that. Here you have many first hand testimonies from people that are well established in their own communities with no history of criminal activity, no ax to grind, no profit to be made....ten twenty and thirty years after the fact trying to discuss their personal experience in twi. Your non stop campaign to try to discredit that person in order to call into question their experience is not some noble cause or truth that you are gallantly fighting for. In reality, You make this a hostile place for any whom try to present their experiences that you don`t approve of. Dove, you personally, though you couch your responses in diplomatic sounding terms....are really hurtful to those who don`t deserve your innuendos....innocent people who were simply deceived...and now all these years later...you can`t even allow us to discuss it without somehow trying to make people feel dirty all over again. It isn`t pleasant, nobody enjoys the spot light that you shine upon them, your assaults on their veracity....not being allowed to participate on threads without having to defend themselves from your attacks....relentlessly ...time after time....many times not even to comment on the topic at hand, or the content of the post.......but simply to attempt to discredit the poster period....the threads being drawn off track and into the soap opera forums eventually when trying to defend ourselves. What you do to your brothers and sisters, what you do in the name of your religion is hurtful and mean, whatever you tell yourself.

You know, there are people who get away with crimes...who are damnably guilty, whether they are ever prosecuted in a court of law. Dove, it isn`t alleged when I/WE am relating first hand personal experiences. You cannot handle the reality of our experiences, so you have accuse the rest of us of making up lies. As lawsuit happy as twi is...I have NO doubt that if we here were lying or saying ANYTHING slanderous....we would be hauled into court immediately....but you know WHY they never file charges??? Our personal accounts have been backed up repeatedly. I don`t accuse you of lying and making sh9t up just because YOUR experiences are vastly different than mine.

People use internet handles because it is dangerous in todays world to put your nae out on the world wide web. People here know one another, many of us have met other posters. It has nothing to do with annonymity. That is simply another attempt to discredit the first hand testiomonety. Don`t you know that EVERY time an abuse situation has been brought forth...there was the same group of posters that came forth and called the stories and those giving accounts liars. Whether it was sexual abuse, child abuse, or forced abortions.... ENough people finally stepped forward to say...no...it happened to me too...or to my wife or my child....so then the new tactic to discredit the accounts was brought into play.....oh it was just isolated incidents...then more and more came forward...the tactic must change again....of well...there was something wrong with YOU...you were too stupid or too cowardly...or really deep down wanted it..... When enough people finally come forward...that the truth is incontivertible...that these abuses DID occur...then the final tactic to discredit....Oh...you are just a perpetual whining victim....you need to get over it...you need to forgive and move on....to not do these things means that you are mentally unstable. It is all just a never ending attempt to discredit a posters experience...why?? Did any of you know vp better than you know any of us??? WHy this insatiable need to make the ones who were despitefully used...the wounded...those who died...the villains here??? Do you think these are the actions of a christian to a brother or sister?? I don`t know about anybody else....but the accusations, the inuendos are damned hurtfull...I don`t like having my character assaulted, my mental state called into question, simply because I chose to tell what happened to me personally in twi.

That is happened to even ONE person ...was one too many. One prescious lamb of God slaughtered and devoured by ravening wolves :( You have 7 people from a website of hundreds....out of a membership of tens of thousands that are unaware of this sites existance...I`d say that was pretty significant number of accounts. To each individual...it was life impacting....to each one of the seven who came forward...a HUGE deal to be abused in the name of God :( Factor in also, the folks that have pm`d me...stating that they couldn`t come forward after watching the treatment of those whom did come.....their reputation called into question...being accused of being stupid, or of wanting it, or wanting the status.....or that the pain and humiliation suffered is exaggerated...but never the less...offering their support.... You have the posters whom have shared their stories of abuse...cat cups sister...I don`t think dot has been around lately to participate in this poll...there are many many more who have share their ordeals and moved on. The abuse the guys and the children went through were as outragious and unconscionable as well....it`s just that this type seems to crop up the most often. Christian ministers ...men of the spirit just don`t TREAT people this way.....there is only one other alternative....

I just don`t understand why one feels compelled to diminish another`s experiences, impressions, and personal accounts :( This sight is about telling the *other side of the story*..the one that we were never allowed to tell when we were involved. To portray a poster as mentally unstable, or an exaggerator, or a liar...a psychotic whiner because one is uncomfortable with the accounts shared, is bewildering and hurtfull. Who made it your business Dove...to attempt non stop discrediting of testimoney....or your business Pond, to attribute mental defect and unhealthiness for holding ones point of view concerning their own personal experiences. Can you guys not just talk about your side of twi...your experiences...your impressions...Please ??? Why this irrational need to discredit anyone who doesn`t agree with you as mentally unstable, or a liar?? I am so tired of having my veracity, my integrity and character called into question when I discuss what happened to me in twi. It is very unkind.

I don`t understand why you hang around just to torment people. What is right or decent or kind about that?

Bumpy, it isn`t viewed as a joking matter when it happens to you personally. To treat abuse, whether it was physical, mental or spiritual as lighthearted and fodder for humor, indicates a serious lack of understanding of the life long impact of these actions. It is what makes the abuse so heinous...

This happened to us at the hands of supposed Christian men and women :( Bumpy, your comment is as always insensitive.

What I find puzzling...is that in order to abide by these beliefs...wierwille/pfal supporters need to villainize the people who`s experiences indicate possible contradictions. In order to maintain ones beliefs...someone must diminish the credibility of the one presenting their experiences. Either the poster is psychotic, or a liar, or an exaggerator, though there is multiple accounts...it is claimed that there is no evidence.... It some how seems to cause the defender a feeling of comfort, it seems to some how allow one to feel comfortable with their beliefs. It is a lot more comfortable to believe that we were once God`s elite crack troops, setting the world on fire...than to accept the accounts of abuse and wonder if we were simply decieved and our effort used to serve evil men :( Dove, as far as you not having a problem with me?? I`d say the years of following my posts with attempts at discredit my experiences as those of a whiner, as possibly a lie...as probably untrue because it won`t stand up in a criminal court of law...the way you sometimes led the group as they gleefully assassinated my character time and again when I was relating my experiences....was unpleasant and vindictive. Yes, you have changed this year, you no longer come straight out and point your finger at me as a liar or my post as those of a whiner or a lunatic.....your continued insinuation that my experiences are nothing more than hearsay, and inuendos of my testimony not being reliable....is never the less still an assault on my personal character and integrity. You are just more clever in your wording more diplomatic in your put downs, so that you can come off as a nice guy :( You go so far far over board to accuse me ...some one whom has never been accused of a crime, whom has never ever been shown to be a liar....you do this in defense of men whom have been accused by thousands of individuals of misdeeds, of crimes committed.....of horrible accounts of abuse of their authority as Christian ministers... Can you not see how hypocritical that is?? What you did to a sister in Christ was unconscionable. Do you not wonder at a vbelief system that allows you to do this with impunity?

Having personally been on the recieving end of your accusations and put downs for years...I`d have to say that *currently* would be more honest and accurate than *never*

Why would we be asked NOT to pray?

Personally speaking...the dots represent my pauses in thought.....it is how I speak in real life...a pause or hesitation at the end of a sentence as I gather or formulate my thoughts for my next idea. It is how I communicate in real life....and has bled over into the way I communicate here I guess. Just a personal idiosyncracy that has no special hidden meaning or agenda :)

Polar Bear, those are my occasional stomping grounds...I visit my Dad in Orlando...and we have a cottage just this side of key west :) Sounds like a great plan

Does dismissing us binary code some how make it ok to be insulting and mean...trolling from thread to thread to throw out insults in order to get a rise for your mornings entertainment over tea? If that is what you have to do to tell yourself that being a bullying is ok...I guess that I can understand it. I know that I am flesh and blood on the other side of this screen that whom you are deliberatly baiting and trying to offend. Your *humor* is many times disruptive of productive discussions where people are finding value in one another`s insight. You drop stink ...and them when there is an ensuing uproar...act suprised and whine...oh poor me...you just don`t understand comical little bumpy. What you do is disruptive and mean, however *harmless* you label your activities. I think that your biggest fans are those whom enjoy watching you slam posters who`s view point they don`t care for. Nice guy...real nice.

I am forced to admit that apparently I was mistaken in believing that you desired dialogue. I have no desire to swap insults or to further derail the thread trying to fend off your accusations and psycho analysis. It is bewildering to me any time when one feels that they cannot express individual view points addressing the points discussed without nasty personal inuendoes or accusations to discredit the others contribution :( I am sorry Pond, I guess engaging you for honest discussion was a mistake. Thanks, but no thanks.... I am done.

Oooooooook, I`ll accept that last post as a no.

Well see Pond, the nifty little button works both ways...you can place someone on ignore...OR if you think a person`s input might be beneficial......or might have something to contribute of relevance to the subject at hand.....you can UN ignore them!! If indeed that it seems that one is mistaken, and find nothing of personal value...why then PRESTO..you can press the button again! Ain`t technology grand! :)

Better save your barbs for someone with the mental acuity to understand and appreciate that they have been insulted Bumpy...shrug

If that wasn`t your intention ...than maybe we need to work on your *people skills* :)

Back to the topic at hand :) Do you have anything to contribute to my thoughts countering your allegation that Jesus requires me to forgive these ravening wolves, or are you just going to continue to allege that my view point isn`t valid simply because I am nuts? I suppose your humor is just way to sophisticated for me to understand Bumpy.