rascal

Karl, all I can say is....you were right. Cathy

Oh my goodness!!! Two people whom I have so much respect for finding joy and happiness in each other! I am so excited for you both.

No kidding? Lol Mike....I don`t think that you would hurt me either :) It was just the look on paws face...and the only gs mike I knew had no use for me.

Ahhh the terror of the park ranger...the mad scurry to comply with his orders...the guys guzzling from whichever direction his back was turned when his attention was diverted... Meeting greasespotters whom we had talked with and shared our lives for years.... Shoot Paw, that WAS a great video...I`d like to see it again

In Kentucky Belles parents took us all to mammoth cave. The kids fished in the little pond. We lost pawtucket for a day. In fall creek falls...the kids threw poison oak covered wood on the campfire before they roasted their hot dogs and marshmellows and hot dogs...they were a mess before the next morning...lol

THAT was horrible....omg...he said his name was mike...and the only mike I knew was unbalanced imo...and this BIG guy had my hand...And I couldn`t get away...and he was going to hurt ...me...I guess all of the horror was showing on my face....it scared poor paw.... THEN I find out who it really is after making him really really uncomfortable... Here I was meeting THE pawtucket celebrity, personal hero...for the first time...and I make such an outstanding first impression don`t you know :)

Little Hawk staged the snipe hunt for shellons benefit...Rascal husband (guest spouse) was supposed to keep the kids safe....but had been in the pear juice so forgot...little hawks son corey being the good sport that he was ... left the kids in the woods...they paid him back by hitting him with rocks when he tried to sc are him though

We were young, naieve, vulnerable. You saw that and exploited our need, manipulated us into believing that you held the answeres to our suffering. Dirty, filthy, vile old pervs, sating their wicked lusts...filling their bloated bellies ...exploiting through our vulnerabilities.... promising all the answers to life and Godliness if we would just submit .... For what you did to me....For what you did to my brothers and sisters, for the families you divided and destroyed, for the children neglected and abused, for the trusting who died...for the babies aborted...for the lives that were hijacked...for the people used and discarded when their usefulness exhausted.....for the people who will struggle for the rest of their lives dealing with the consequences of our involvement...the broken hearts...the destroyed souls....the shattered lives....for the people that are still ensnared ....for all of this evil perpetrated in the name of God...for that which was seized by claiming the authority of God......there can be no justice. Words fail to communicate the depths of my disgust and revulsion for your depravity. So I guess I will simply have to settle with borrowing some of Shellons well worded sentiments...FU CK You TWI! I can only hope that if there really is a God and some day there really is going to be an afterlife.....and that one day you will answer for the atrocities you have committed.

I think that if you were to attend showing your undeniable good health, peace, joy, prosperity etc....it might be a witness of sorts as to the goodness of God as a part of your life even outside of twi. Maybe people wouldn`t feel so entrapped.

Whew...Greasespot has been so instrumental in my healing. I feel almost panicky at the thought of loosing this anchor.. Thank you for all of the effort put into keeping this place up and running.

Nope, you misrepresent Jesus and his teachings when you make that statement. He didn`t tell anyone to forgive the pharacees and saducees. He called em vile names and condemned their actions. Think I will follow Jesus` example of how to address those whom steal and destroy in the name of God.

They cannot restore what was taken or mitigate the damage wrought in s many cases. What they could do is at least recognize the devastation, maybe even grieve with us over what was destroyed :( I think that the total disassociation from ones responsibility might even fall under the description of *conscience seared with a hot iron* Pretend that it isn`t their problem bury themselves in word studies, believing that their knowlege and busy work makes them spiritual, that what they do is important to God.

In answer to the original question, have I ever received an apology? Absolutely not. They apparently feel that they do not owe one. Rather instead, I have heard all kinds of excuses as to why it isn`t necessary. An undeniable indication that they just don`t care what they have done, an unbelievable lack of simple common decency or even basic understanding of Christian principle or responsibility. In telling people that they ought to forgive, it makes the damage perpetrated someone elses problem. No big deal, if the victim forgives, it`s all fixed pretty, wiped away, hidden from view...The perpetrators are free to present their shiny clean faces and clear consciences to the world. I have to agree with Ham, the lack of empathy, compassion not to mention down right common decency would be a strong indicator that these people never really were our brothers and sister :) Forgive them?? Not freaking likely. I don`t think it even advisable.

Too true Mr.. Ham :) Scriptures also say that God claims vengeance is his,and that he will repay....That doesn`t sound very forgiving to me. Is God going to cut them some slack for the evil perpetrated just because I decide to forgive them?? Where is repentance in there? Where is the accountability? Seems rather presumptuous to think that I have any business in even considering forgiving these guys for the evil they personally committed in the name of God. Not my call really, that is between them and God. I am still madder than hell at what they did in God`s name though.

Guess If you want to use the bible as a standard, I read where God apparently requires repentance and us actually asking before HE forgives, never simply as a matter of course or to make himself feel better. Maybe Jesus` prayers for those that crucified him were to avert the consequences of their actions because they didn`t know what they were doing.... In direct contrast, the board of twi is fully aware of the immorality and consequences of their despicable behavior. Kind of like the pharacees that preyed on people in God`s name....Jesus certainly didn`t tell us to pray for THEM...He was down right ....ed. Folks can forgive if they want, but I think a line is crossed when it is claimed that is what God expects of us without the prerequisit of repentance and asking.

Well said, sadly people that I love live life post twi feverishly applying principles, researching, faithfully operating the keys learned that they believe make them Christian. The arrogance of their knowledge seems to doom them to the life of pretend :(

We have put down roots and it is good :) I think that in moving repeatedly one has no ties with the outside world, no chance to build trust with people outside of twi. It made it so much easier to subscribe to their warped views. I think that was a huge part of our dependence on them.

You simply don`t you can`t. Some things done in the name of God and commttment to his word can never ever be fixed :(

Can`t say what you really think...oops can`t really even think what you want because that is negative. Can`t be honest about what you have seen, what you feel, warn another of impending danger....because it is all...negative. Can`t tell another what is really going on in your life, cannot be honest.. Can`t handle what is being insisted on from you...every fiber of your being screaming how wrong what they are telling you God requires ?? Run retemories through your head to silence that inner voice .. to ignore your better judgement ...to numb yourself while you brokenly comply with orders..... How many people (me for one) were warned away from greasespot or way dale even AFTER they left twi because they couldn`t handle the *negatives* :( It took a long time to over come this particular conditioning.

WHat boggles MY mind is when you consider how many tens of thousands of people were praying for those leaders and the house hold at any given moment of every day.....day after day year after year ...decades where millions and millions of hours of heartfelt prayers for these people....ugh...how utterly rediculous and completely useless was that??

I don`t think there is a one size fits all...you must go to church you must subscribe to an offshoot you must be with like minded people therapy no therapy..etc. For 5 yrs post twi I was in the same stagnant mindset...my arrogance in my knowledge of scripture..my confiidence that I had the truth and every one else was stupid...prevented any healing or moving on...I was hopeless doomed to operating principles that didn`t work no matter how scrupulously applied, and inevitably blaming myself for the lack of results. In the avatar movie there is a line that to me describes our mindset to a t... *It is hard to fill a cup that is already full* Meaning if we think we know it all, think that our knowledge makes us spiritual, enlightened, our beliefs the only possible conclusion...what could thos idiots in the church teach ME?? We limit ourselves ...there isn`t room to learn from people with whom God has guided on a different path, different lessons learned ...different long suits mastered. I have learned a great deal from our little country church. Love, support, encouragement, recognizing and valuing each individual and the contributions that the unique insight developed through their own spiritual journey. Some churches we have attended have been better for us than others...no doubt they suit the people that attend just fine, they just weren`t for us where we were at at the time....a couple were even nearly as poisonous and destructive as twi... I have met some outstanding spiritual individuals inside and outside the church. Meeting wonderful spirit filled christians in my experience doesn`t seem to be limited to a particular denomination, and they seem to be able to b able to lend perspective and guidance that is new and refreshing after our twi experience. What I am trying to say is that I have learned not to discredit an individual or the value of what they might have to impart because of the label they wear. Divisiveness is a twi trait that will keep us forever isolated if we let it :( Amen I wish I had said it, that covers it nicely :)

I am amazed at how they convinced us to do this to ourselves....to shut down our own common sense...to ignore danger signals....to to comply with orders that were contrary to our best interests...to endure hardships .. to accept abuse... to place ourselves in danger...believing it was our own faults when the inevitable consequences happened... Obey whatever a leader suggested...no matter how crazy...God would honor our believing...Shut down that inner voice screaming to be heard by running retemory verses........ignore that inner voice, that concience the still small voice .... because that was satan trying to decieve you...only think one thought at a time...occupy your mind with I am amazed that they managed to get us to blind ourselves

What a concept, and they managed to find a way to get the people who could actually *see* to ignore that which their perceptions were telling them. get us to shut out the pleas and voices of our family members and friends when they tried to intervene on our behalf labeling them as agents of satan trying to keep us from the word...They managed to effectively silence the voices of those who finally were aware of what they were seeing by convincing the rest of us that those who were trying to sound the alarm bells and wake us up were deceived and possessed. So, do you think those leaders were truly spiritually blind, or were their eyes wide open, knowing that they were leading the rest astray?

I hear you guys, grease spot is instrumental in our healing as well. No doubt I would have spent the rest of my life wondering where we went wrong, waiting for satan to take us out, trying to live up to the impossible standard of a flawed belief system...sigh Thank you

Tom, You don`t see it, ok.....but that doesn`t mean I was intentionally disruptive or negate my identifying and agreeing with another`s point on this thread..really :) When my perceptions and understanding were denigrated as churchy....ok...but is that parting insult necessarily Christian either?