rascal

Nobody has mentioned anything. I think a lot of folks who used to attend weenie roasts are further away now or planning to go to texas.

Tzaia, I don`t believe that statement is entirely accurate. The most heartbreaking and cruel treatment I recieved while in, was from an interim family corpes beetch. I was only app corpes/wow when required to do unthinkable acts to stay withing the hedge of God`s protection. Whether twi contact caused people to become abusive and cruel, or it simply attracted and fostered people whom were viscious abusers anyway, I don`t know. What about all of the children that were physically and sexually abused on the field and at rout locals? They weren`t upper ranks. I just know that cruel treatment and abuse was rampant all through the ranks. I think to dismiss the suffering and horrors endured as just a few instances in the top levels, and therefor unimportant, or irrelevant to our experience...isn`t fair.

Great idea OCW! Here`s a positive thought...God delivered us from that creepy mind numbing, life sucking, soul stealing, family destroying cult founded by a false profit who led tens of thousands of people away from God. another positive....I humbly thank God for the deliverance from arrogance and the idolatry of twi doctrine, the application of principles and invocations of non existent laws, in the guise of a spiritual walk and life style. and positive number three....in living through the horrors of cult life, one can much more appreciate the simplicity of God`s goodness. The blessings and accomplishments in our live are more savored and enjoyed. See, contrary to the assertion... I CAN be *positive* on occasion.... I`ll throw in another for good measure..I am POSITIVE that I wish that I had never heard of twi or been under the influence of it`s evil doctrines :)

I think that people need to feel like they were right, that the ministry falling apart was somebody elses fault, rather than being a cult, a diseased non fruit bearing tree that needs to be uprooted. If you are a remnant, you are with people who still feel like you do, you have a prestige, an importance, that others recognize. There is no need to humble yourself and reevaluate your spiritual understanding. In other words, you don`t have to admit that you were wrong. You can still pretend to be God`s spiritual superstars, noble dulous, on an important mission. You can all pat yourselves on the back and tell each other how special, and above the rest of the body of Christ you are. Other people help foster your delusion so that the reality of being alone, without God or family does not intrude and disturb ones peace of mind.

*Focusing on the negatives, both actual and imagined, prevents remembering and seeing the many positives* I think that is a rediculous assumption, and sounds like simply an excuse to refuse to take into account all relevent factors in a situation, Mike. *This is the essence of free will: it's what we choose to DWELL ON, and to DWELL IN By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever* Truthfully? It sounds to me like nothing more than a pretty excuse to remain in complete denial, oblivious to the reality of a given situation, *Those who choose to live in the negatives long enough cannot even imagine the existence of the positives. This is a more horrible self-imposed limitation than anything that ever happened in twi*. I think that is a very silly statement, but then I suppose necessary to salve ones conscience and block out the horror of reality.

What a lying loser...sheeshe I suppose anything is acceptable as long as you are promoting twi :(

Damn, it looks like murder. I had wanted to believe that she was just a flake that panicked after an accident. The find of chloroform in the mom`s trunk, along with the records from the computer showing searches for ways to use it are sure damning. What a damned monster, and the parents are STILL in denial ... sigh

True....drugging, rape, sexual and physical abuse, child abuse, destruction of families, broken hearts, manipulation, theft and death can tend to be a smidge on the negative side :( Kind of tough to honestly discuss these activities in a positive light...sigh

Jeff, you know? It must have made those guys CRAZY that you actually stood with/for God. They pointed their fingers of accusation at you and said *bad boy* You were painted as the one with spiritual problems....yet it was you whom was resisting evil. Amazing how many times that happened.

First off, thank you for your service to this country Jeff. A marine IS the real deal. I can tell you how it was taught to me. We were given the example of Peter being told to come out to Jesus on the boat during the storm. It was explained how Peter obeyed his leader no matter how nutty the suggestion seemed to his 5 senses. When he began to look at the storm around him, instead of his leader, he began to sink. If we wanted to see a miracle, if we wanted to be a doulos, we must obey our leaders. It was then added, EVEN if the leader was wrong, God would make it ok because he would honor the commitment of our hearts. Even if we were RIGHT, it was wrong because we had disobeyed God`s leader. This was the same reasoning that was used to keep the wives in line when our husbands made bone head decisions or expected us to meekly accept mistreatment. My God it was like watching a train wreck sometimes, knowing that the direction you were required to go was stupid, knowing that it was dangerous, yet the feeling of helplessness of being required to submit and obey, or be found stiff necked and outside of God`s will was infuriating. You did this thing which was absolutely wrong, this thing that you abhorred, because obediance was required. It was obey this man, or be stiff necked and outside of God`s will. It was a horrible sick teaching.

Karate Class :)

Well one who is free, you have read what many many other people think about different topics, that doesn`t mean that what you think or want to say is redundant or unnecessary. Everyone has their own unique view point...shrug. I`d be glad to read what you had to say.

Looks like the bb has flopped again. She will not be going back to jail. I think the Grandma just wants so badly to believe that the baby is ok. I think the Grandma wants desperately to believe that her daughter would never do such a thing. I have a friend, a sister, and an aunt who are the very same way. They have daughters that are complete flakes, whom are completely self centered, oblivious to the pain and suffering that they cause, who continue to behave in outragious manners, with their Mom`s just brokenly cleaning up mess after mess that the kids land themselves into. My dearest friend is basically raising her own grandaughter. Her daughter living at home, refusing to care for the daughter, making excuses to sneak out and party. She is the same age as Cacee, her baby will turn two sunday. Every time I see that mother/daughter/grandaughter on tv, it is like seeing my friend and what she endures, what she does to protect the grandbaby, how immature her daughter is, the constant lying. My friend, My sister, My Aunt all are good people who have to deal with the crap their children whom they dearly love drag into their lives :( I just feel like I know these poor people (the parents). Good people who live in denial because they cannot bear to look at the alternative. Also, The Grandma didn`t clean the car up untill after the police had conducted their investigation and returned it to her. She had no reason to think that she was destroying evidence. I think she totally bought the abduction/rotting pizza story. Has Cacee ever indicated why she abandoned the car?

I dunno, it might be a real hoot to go back and watch jaws drop when we DIDN`T stand for the mog, when we DIDN`T pucker up. I don`t think that they could handle anyone who wasn`t instantly obedient to every decree. Wouldn`t it be worth the price of boredom to just once say *NO* when someone inserted their nose or opinions in your business and watch their faces get splotchy and prurple with rage? What if we did go back and offer an opinion about a teaching or decline to take classes? Naw, I don`t think they`d really have us back for long. It is amazing to me though that they would allow us weak spiritual zeros back into the fold with all of the dangers we once posed to be in the presence of those who have crossed into zion. Seriously though, I had the *roa* dream again last night. Geemany, it has been 21 years since the last one I attended.

This has been upsetting to me as well. :(

Well done Raf :)

Fall Creek Falls State Park was lovely last time we went. Natchez Trace is supposed to be beautiful. Tims Ford though not as spectacular, is beautiful and close enough for me to bring Kayaks and canoes for anyone interested.

When did you have in mind?

Amen! Wherever it comes from environmental, spiritual, mental, people fighting this battle need the prayers, love and support of their family, of the body of Christ. Not to be ashamed, to feel dirty, contaminated, unlovable, unworthy, weak because of ones lack of believing. It was a cruelty that never need have happened, if once confronted with the fallibility of our doctrines, they had been courageous to say, hey you know? We might have made a mistake here. CYA was way more important, apparently.

So much heart ache and pain could have been alleviated had these guys just had the integrity and courage to be honest with the tens of thousands of people who looked to them for spiritual guidance, and the thousands who still today try to believe and apply erroneous doctrines and pratices.

Well, it IS a huge deal! The reason being, imo, is that VPW`s teaching about *cancer being a devil spirit*, was used to hurt a lot of people. Imagine fighting the battle for your life alone and friendless, abandoned by your family and believers because they have been taught to believe that you now have a devil spirit. Your life is dissected by everyone to figure out where, how when, why you blew it. Your closest friends told they can have no contact with you. You die alone and friendless. Immersed in shame, condemnation and self loathing Yeah, this really happened, just when you need the support and love from your family from the body of Christ , YOU have been cut off. Imagine the shame, the condemnation, the bewilderment of not knowing how you even became possessed. The shame of not believing big enough to over come it. Now old vpw gets cancer. We are in a real pickle. VPW was either possesses as he taught, or he was wrong in one of his most fundamental teachings. Next biggie, he was either incapable of operating his *law of believing* or he was wrong when he taught believing equals receiving. Any one of these issues was enough to collapse his house of cards. The BIGGEST issue of all perhaps, is that rather than come to grips and honestly addressing these issues....they chose to hide his affliction. Had he been honest, the condemnation, the blame and self loathing of people who needed support during the most frightening times of their life....would have evaporated. They could have died peacefully surrounded by friends and family members. No no, had to preserve the mogs infallibility. Mustn`t cause people to doubt the accuracy of his teachings. Suuuuuure....Tell the folks he died of a broken heart. No accountability for erroneous doctrines that have cause so much pain. No accountability for the shame and condemnation of sick people everywhere searching their souls to figure out where they blew it. No accountability for the people who died trying desperately to *believe* their way back to health. The story is...HE decided to die because we all broke his heart. WE were blamed for the death of THE man of God for our day and time..THE man that God promised to teach the word like it had never been taught before. Damned right it was a BFD Chaz, Any idea how awfull it felt to be blamed for the death of our beloved teacher? Damned right that even in twi`s mad scramble to squirm out from responsibility, the poster has a valid point...according to twi history, when examined, the excuse given was SUICIDE! Which incidentaly is yet another devil spirit according to vpw.

Peaceful? With 4 teenagers and 3 pre teens?? LOL I am with you Bramble :) When I look back on the dire promises of death, spiritual possession, lack of God`d blessings due from being outside of his umbrella of protection....that WOULD befall us is we left twi...I have to say my life is pretty darned good. We certainly didn`t die, as a matter of fact the family increased in size significantly. I`d have to say that we have experienced great kindness, mercy, deliverance, wonderful friends, opportunities, a terrific community to raise our children. God IS good, in spite of the stupid detours and side roads that we get lost on.

There is something I WILL say about where I am because of twi. My enjoyment of life is so much more keen, from not being allowed to follow dreams or goals. Every accomplishment is sweeter, every goal achieved more deeply savored because of having been *taboo* for decades. Not being allowed to be myself, or to pursue my dreams has made me appreciate just how precious, how not to be taken for granted out freedom is.

Thanks copenhagen and p mosh for what you DO bring to the cafe. I enjoy what you can share. I am sorry that you are unable to fully participate.

Whew, I wouldn`t be living in Tenn raising 7 children, I know that. I have two sisters and a brother whom never got involved with twi. They all got college educations, have had great jobs enjoyed prosperity, and are all getting ready to retire on fat pensions, building their dream cabins at the lake. I can`t help but feel envious of where my life would have gone, had it not been detoured by twi :(