rascal

But Mike...You DID say that...you SAID that God covered vp`s transgressions so he could get his message out...therefore...LOGICALLY it didn`t MATTER what he did to other children of God......God didn`t let him get caught...he didn`t CARE about the bievers that were hurt...vp had to be covered at all cost... Mike I HAVE read all that you wrote....your statement to the contrary is inacurate...I am not a focuser of evil...that is a lie as well..... YOU are the one trying to focus on evil, by your adamant promotion of a wicked, VILE man who was able to wreak much havoc because he hid behind the illusion he created of being a spiritual, Godly man... He used GOD for heavens sake... to perpetrate his evil...I hope that he pays DEARLY some day. YOU want to drag folks back into the dark pit of bondage and legalism that we so desperatly fought to leave.... I`M telling you ... that we aren`t having any of it, and I will continue to do EVERYTHING within my power to expose this evil charlatan who masqueraded as a Man of God .....just as LONG as you continue to keep trying to present his illusion of spirituality ....and suck folks back into his false doctrine. Has nothing to do with us focusing on evil...it has EVERYTHING to do with leading folks out of the darkness that vpw manufactured. Victoria you are correct, I cannot back up my statement.... Many different situations in my life these last years has led me to this impression, I am sorry, that is all that it is...an impression, I would HOPE that IF there is a God...and IF he cared about us...He WOULD sorrow at our being heinously used and mistreated ..........placed in the most stifeling of bondage in HIS name.

Once again...TWI failed NOT because our lack of efforts, or mastery of pfal ...but rather because it was spiritually corrupt and poisonous, at the root level. Had God wanted twi to succeed....Had it been the only avenue for his rightly divided word...believe me ... he WOULD have honored the diligent prayes and selfless efforts of the tens of thousands of us who`s entire lives were devoted to it`s support. Had God supported twi in any measure...it would NEVER have failed... Quit blaming us who did EVERYTHING and more required to succeed in the spiritual battle, and lay the blame for twi`s demise at the feet of the evil wolf that appeared to us in sheeps clothing .....the one whom was responsible for introducing the evil and allowing it to run rampant....(no not Satan...just vp embracing and entertaining the evil) As for God covering vp`s butt from scandal...THAT is absurd.... As I understand it, He WAS caught AND thrown out of his church because of sexual scandal... It WAS a big deal...totally discrediting him in the community....why do you think so few *locals* had any use or respect for vp? God would NEVER sacrafice a SINGLE much less 100s maybe thousands of sweet pure hearted believers to a sick mans lusts....just to allow HIS word to succeed....for you to lay THAT callous disregard at God`s feet Mike.....is just sick. God loved and sorrowed over the damage, and destruction wrought in EACH believer that vpw betrayed.......to assert that their pain, the destruction wrought in their lives ... was ignored, covered, hidden from view simply because he wanted vp to complete his *mission* is blasphemous, absurd, ...and a HUGE disservice to a loving God.

What is really sad Mike, is that you and the others in your fellowship had so much of your youth, devoured by twi...and now here it is 20 years later, even after twi/vp are DEAD...you folks STILL allow it to consume, control, and waste what is left of your precious lives. Bad enough to waste the first half of our adult lives in that evil manipulation...it is a shame to live and promote the deception ...and waste what is left on such a worthless endeavor...

ROFLMAO ((((Chwester)))) gufaw lol lol Ya had me going for a second... Lemmee by you a cup of coffee :-) truce?

Ayup been there, done that, still got the tshirts to prove it, for sure!...I think Mr. Rose made a much wiser choice lol....At that, he wasn`t nearly the scoundrel most of our twi *christian* leadership were. Cathy

Oh yeah man...I`d MUCH rather sell out to some ministry and worship some class on the bible...and be used by vile men...devote my entire adult life to promoting an evil organization... makes SO much more sense ;-)

I cried watching Hard ball, starring Keanu reeves last month :-( Cathy

Wow plotinus .... that last line, REALLY rings bells... NOW I know why I hated *door to door* so much... I ALWAYS felt like I was hawking God...and was ashamed... I did it because I thought it was what one does if they *loved* God...but inside it made me so sick. I just thought it was my lack of spirituality that made me uncomfortable. You KNOW God would have rather had us out there doing the types of things that you mentioned...instead of wasting all those hours/years trying to sell a bible class for a corrupt ministry. What great good could have been accomplished, had we all really been working on his behalf...had all our energy been focused on making this world a better place for all man ...stead of just a few in NK Ohio.

(((((((((((Ex)))))))))) I wish I could KILL him for what he did ......for what he did to so many trusting souls.... It must be terribly difficult (it is for me anyway) to listen to folks defend this deviant pervert....to revere him as some kind of saint that stumbled just a mite..and to laud the ministry that he hid behind. He dangled God and all the answeres to life in fornt of us like a carrot.....he said *I* can show you the word of God....the *will* of God...show you how to make life meaningfull ...how to have harmony in your home..all those promises to win our trust... passed himself off as GOD`S representative......used that facade to put us off our Guard.... to eventually lure trusting victims into his grasp... He betrayed you vilely...he betrayed the God he was supposed to represent...he betrayed his wife...his vows...us who supported him...who spent our entire adult lives focused on promoting his ministry, because we trusted him...believed that twi was the BEST way to make God known to people.... It just KILLS me when folks come along...sayin...yeah...but all THATS ok...cause *I* got the WORD!!!! There are not words to express the contempt I feel for this ravager of lives and destroyer of souls.... The ONLY reason he was never held accountable in THIS world ... is because he hid behind God and the bible...He USED them to facillitate the fullfillment of his sick lusts....to crush the hearts of precious people. I dearly hope there will be justice in the next...

Midnight sun, or Buck...if EITHER of you speak to Arlyn...please send him my love as well.. He got a really raw deal. He was a good guy ... his love for God and believing were so simple. Deb was a sweet soul as well....how sick that she could be molded into such a hard hearted witch. I hope the leaders responsible, one day have to answere for the destruction and misery that they have caused.....grrrrr

My husband refused to send in a *loyalt oath* letter.....and though we were never told we COULDN`T attend twig....it was made clear that we were spiritually *suspicious* So while Hubby was not involved.... wasn`t allowed to accept further assignments...I still faithfully attended. I didn`t pick up on it at first d`uh ... I was STILL as committed and on fire as I ever was...but all of a sudden... I had lost all respect and credibility ...I was someone who everybody WISHED would get the message and stop showing up....but nobody ever had the nerve to come right out and say it. It was so dissapointing, I wasn`t invited for coffee anymore, bowling, or other activities.... people for whom I had been a *sister* and whom I had loved for almost a decade.. now regarding me as *unsavory*...it really hurt knowing I had not changed ...but all of a sudden everyone else saw me as something contemptable...I was even mad at hubby for a while for bringing this shame upon us...poor guy. All of those years of following the game plan.....sacrificing our goals and dreams and obeying the leaders instead...... our utmost for his highest...multiple wow years..adv class...corps....you know how proud we were of these accomplishments ... the *status* that those name tags garnered for us...lol...it all meant NOTHING...you were lower than the newest newbie...after all of those years of service to God meant squat....sigh So for me ...it was a slow drawn out weaning...probably the most gentle of departures...however, because there was never any decisive closing point....It was many years before I began to mentally review my destructive thought processes...question my beliefs..which delayed my reentry into *normal* society by several more years. I cannot imagine the horror of being m&a`d ... you who went through this I am so sorry. Cathy

Ron, Congratulations!!!! I am so happy for you and Andrew!

Phoebe was FANTASIC...taught me life lessons that I will always be thankfull to her for....really took a young scared kid, and helped instill confidence, and trust in God. It was the family corps that replaced her, that were horrible. The man was ok...I don`t think he ever knew what his wife was doing. Suffice it to say that after a great couple of years in twi...of growing and loving God, of being considered a *model believer* to in 3 short months...when that woman was finished with me...I seriously contemplated driving off the red river bridge to rid this world and the body of christ of my noxious, evil presense....... It really crushed me, I never could figure out how I could be considered on fire for God, a committed believer to totally possessed and evil, and noteven realise howit had happened.....ah well, it just opened the door for God to reveal himself miraculously, the following year to get my attention, and help me realise that he really DID love me, and that her opinion had never REALLY been his...lol I found out later she was so mean because she had told God that she wanted to be sent to a particular area for her interim year...and it would appear that Fargo was not it....so I guess she took it out on us:-( I wrote the story in long form a long time ago.. in a thread called false accusations...dunno if it is still around or not.

The old broadway...sounds familiar...but it is so fuzzy. You did a great job...fellowship was sweet believers were so kind..the things that truly made our ministry years so special.... I was speaking of Jerry, phoebes son. As for Jerry D seems to me he dumped Karen, she dropped outta school shortly after, bought a motor cycle (which she had to learn to ride lol) and hit the road. I never saw her again. She was a sweetheart. Fargo was great when Phoebe was there, but when she left, and the new int family corps arrived, that the nightmare began...I left 4 months later. What about those blizzards eh? The snow piled so high on the sides of the road that it reached the telephone wires...didn`t matter if you lost control of your car ...hee hee...ya just steered into the nearest snow bank...the red river was always nice. I thought it was so funny when I moved there and saw that every car had plugs hangin out their grills, and every parking space had an outlet...hee hee it wasn`t long before I found out why...it was a rude awakening for this Alabama girl:-)

Oh geeze PK, Thanks for the update on Steve and Joyce..If you could ever send my love and thanks to them one day...I`d sure apreciate it. We were there when Michael was born, Steve once rode ten miles or so on a BYCYCLE to buy some medicine and bring it to me when I was having an asthma attack....I will never EVER forget the kindness and love they exhibited. ' I was there when Debbie n Arlyn Hetler had their little girl as well...they were so sweet...would love to know how they are doing...truly salt of the earth type folks. How bout the girl Karen that was going to ndsu....would love to say hi to phoebe or jerry one day as well. Cathy

Ya know Buck...it is a little fuzzy, But now that I am thinking about it...I guess maybe it was 81/82...I forgot that I spent a year in Al, after my wow year in 79/80. Sorry about that. Cathy

(((Buck))), I am not mad at you, I am sorry that I come across that way....just get a little prickly when I am defending posters or this web sight...sorry. What can I say, it is the *mom* in me that causes me to feel so protective at times...lol...I really am mellow! Did we live together in a way home? Please NOW you REALLY have me going....Do you know me? I lived with phoebe n jerry n then lived with the thompsons for a bit the next year. I loved the believers there, however, ND gave me nightmares for years afterwards....lol Cathy [This message was edited by rascal on January 17, 2003 at 7:40.]

hey pk and ..ana..I lived in Fargo from 80/81 I think...brrrrr My friend G Hendricks lived in Moorhead then...when were you guys there?

I spent time in ND in 82/83 ...don`t know those folks, however I`d like to get in touch with Steve n Joyce Schnatzki(sp?) and a girl named Carol, There was another pretty blond girl that went to NDSU.....Fargo was a really harsh place....but the believers made it worthwhile:-)

Schwagers...absolutely, the seclusion is hardest mindset to break...many ex wafers never do...just continue to hang out with ex way or spin off groups....because we are unable to recieve God`s blessings and further instruction due to our being uncomfortable around nbw way sources. The spiritually smug, superior attitude that we developed while in twi....imo was what prevented me from recieving the healing and blessings that God intended, for so many years after leaving twi. It helped me personally to get involved with non *religious* activities....ie in the humane society, softball, local theatre....karate class etc. It is amazing the caring, generous folks that God will put in your path to ease you back into the *real* world. I find there are folks that inspire and teach, whom may never step foot in a church, and yet....can be so instumental in revealing God`s heart and love for us.

What a crock??? WHAT A CROCK???? Yeah, that about sums up the entire twi experience... Every single one of those things I wrote were things either said to me personally through the years, or that I personally witnessed being said to a fellow believer by leadership.... Oldies, You cannot STAND to see the true twi, so in order to maintain your sanity, you have to accuse/believe everybody else of lying. I don`t NEED to lie about twi. [This message was edited by rascal on January 13, 2003 at 14:56.]

Oldies....HELLOOO The corpes program was presented as THE way to learn how to BEST serve God in this relm....we were NEVER told that going corps=giving your life to twi...EVER! WE made the decisions because THEY inisisted that THEY spoke on God`s behalf... THEY insisted that if WE didn`t obey them...if WE didn`t make the decision to go in the corps...that WE were ungratefull losers..worthless to God and a burden to the rest of the body of Christ....that WE refused to shoulder our share of the load...that we ought to just kill ourselves in order to rid the body of our noxious, useless presence. We were bullied mercilessly untill we made a decision one way or another...and God help you if you didn`t go corps...you were just a bump on a log at fellowship...unworthey of respect or friendship...just a worthless piece of crap...salt with no savor...a moron with no gratitude to God or the ministry that brought you his matchless word word...you were NOTHING!!! Damn right we were bullied into that decision and many others others by manipulation through our love for God....and our desire to be a blessing to the rest of the believers. Who put us there?? Fool...it was a manipulative bunch of Godless, self serving beasts who only desired to fill the ranks so that when they sent in their anual twig/branch/limb reports...they looked good on paper. It was the same deal for pfal/wow/adv classes....it never WAS about giving a damn about any of us suckers, or our spiritual growth.

Wafer...just wanted to take time to say...welcome back! I am glad that you are out and can begin growing in new and unimaginable directions...it`s goin to be a great ride! Secondly...I am so glad that you came back...I always felt badly that I was probably one of the posters that made you uncomfortable here, on your last thread...glad that you are here, offering your unique perspective. Cathy

What policies rfr instituted....hmmmm I guess I should have said many, instead of *the most*. The info that was given to me, was from different people whom have either worked in her dept....or in close proximity through the years. Their stories are not mine to tell...I would prefer that they step in here and share what they personally saw and experienced.

Not that I am am defending ANYTHING pl did to you folks, I am so sorry that you had to endure that crap from someone whom was supposed to be helping you to be your *best* for God........ I would like to tell you though, that she DID come into the chat room a couple of years ago, and asked if any of us knew her, while in..... She then apologized for her behavior, and then She earnestly asked for forgiveness from any whom she had hurt. It appears that she may have made some changes since her departure.