rascal

The bible says .... love one another...twi redefined what love meant... They would say *love* meant *confronting someone....that it was necessary to sit a person down in a room and have leaders scream manically at you...they only did it because they *loved* you dontcha know?...and then with tail tucked between our legs....we humbly thanked them for caring enough to set us back on the right track.

Hello...my name is Cathy....and yes sigh ..I am a kool aid drinker... I know there are some of us that had bought into the *obey your leader unquestioningly* teachings. As much as I hate to think about it....I know that I dearly wanted to be that doulos for God...that committed one...some one else said it *dog soldier* bad enough...that I was able to totally shut down my conscious...my feelings...any good sense I might have posessed that might have warned me that THIS was not a good plan... Had we been told the mog or our bretheren under attack...I shudder to say...I`d a been in as much trouble as the waco group... Shaz...I too am appalled at the lack of understanding displayed in that situation...Poor folks undoubtedly died thinking that they were doing their duty to God....as they had been taught....such a tragedy and waste.

Probably just jealous..... I mean how ELSE are you going to explain when an individual outperformes the spiritually elite of twi? It`s either declair them posessed or face that fact that your not quite as superior to everyone as twi doctrine implied....imo

ok...ok bible says.....Every woman in the kingdome belonged to the king....twi teaches the mogs are the modern day kings and leaders...therefor....they were entitled...justified in taking any woman that struck their fancy...married or not.

Ummm Hope do you remember just exactly what was the biblical grounds for the lock box teaching? oh OH ....... that reminds me of another one...What about ...the bible teaches somewhere to take believers to other believers to be judged...not to go to outside courts....and THAT morphed into victims not being allowed to report crimes perpetrated by twi members....*lest the ministry be blamed*

Bible says...children are a blessing from the lord...twi says just as long as they don`t interfere with your commitment to serve in twi.

Oh yeah...another situation...God said love your neighbor....twi said only if they are in good standing in the household... I know families who are STILL not allowed contact...bothers and sisters...parents and children/grandchildren... One lady I know has grandchildren she has never seen because she was marked and avoided in twi. How does THAT fit in with the bibles command to honor thy father and mother??

I guess that I am finaly *getting it* We WERE taught some bible.... however I begin to see that it was that bible...that very respect that was inspired in us for God`s *word* ...is what lent it`s legitimacy to twi....it is what inspired us...fired us up for God....and then once we were disarmed...assuming that we were part of a wholesom Godly inspired group..... we became vulnerable to indoctrination in the teachings and practices that were decidedly UN biblical... It wasn`t the bible or God that was bad...or who dissapointed me or used me..let me down...it wasn`t even God`s representatives!! It`s ok now.. I see it...can actually stop being mad at God...stop mistrusting the bible......way cool

Umm Bible says God will never leave us or forsake us...way ministry teaches...that he will If we leave the household that taught us the word.... If we don`t tithe enough...God can`t take care of us... If we have fear ....God won`t take care of us... If we don`t obey leadership...God won`t speak to us... When one gets married...the wife no longer has access to God....MUST go through husband... It`s sounds like some kind of board game...*the bible says .. the ministry says* [This message was edited by rascal on January 29, 2004 at 11:05.]

Lets see... what other teachings does anybody remember that directly contradicted the bible??? Oh yeah...how about where we were shown that we are no longer under the old testament law...but yet if we didn`t tuthe 10 % God wouldn`t spit in our direction... or that satan would destroy our families because we were leaving open doors.. Bible says not by works of righteousness...way ministry teaches this but say yeah but ya still hafta witness ... tithe... take classes...show commitment by participation in programs ... obey every directive of leadership to avoid being destroyed by satan.... Bible teaches no adultry or fornication...but way ministry says it is ok...necessary because all things are lawfull to them which are in Christ....all parts of the body are equal...like a finger in the ear...yada yada... Seems like with every bit of the bible (which WAS good) ...that was taught to us... the ministry used that as a springboard into one of their wierd doctrines... we were disarmed by the good bible that was beneficial ... then we accepted teachings that were contrary to bibles intentions as good as well...

This came up on another thread...I think bears examination.... In twi, many times we were taught the *word*...but then taught ways to wiggle out of our responsibilities contained therein... For example... we were taught how ot was no longer applicable to us in this administration due to the two greater commandments that JC gave us...FINE no prob....however in the SAME teaching they changed...CHANGED our responsibility contained in the 2nd commandment by putting forth the conclusion that NEIGHBOR ...could ONLY mean... the only one you HAD to love was a *believer* because in bible times your only neighbor was a jew.. THAT is a suposition at best...rediculous really if you look at the locations that the judeans lived......see how they taught us THE *word* one miniute....and then changed what it said our duty was in the next? I mean what they say makes perfect sense UNLESS you read the passage about the good samaritan...shoot the samaritan...the unbeliever in the story was the one that was considered the *neighbor* We were taught that it was ok even acceptable to deny others decency, respect, help ....condem them to hell ...simply because they weren`t (A)... believers...and (B) .. even MORE importantly way ministry believers..and © it was all their fault anyway because of their unbelief.... We were taught to despise and deny any who didn`t accept ministry doctrine and taught that we had no responsibilities as christians to the rest of the world.. Everyones troubles were a direct result of their unbelief ...and we owed them nothing except to speak the *word* What a bastardization of what the bible REALLY taught... Funny but the samarian unbeliever not ONLY picked up the battered believer ...carried him to an inn...PAID for his medical treatment...he paid for his food and board untill the guy got better! He didn`t know him...didn`t require that he subscribe to a certain set of beliefs......MEANWHILE all of the so called respectable believers...had passed this poor guys by to let him die...no doubt convinced that it wasn`t their problem. Another thing.....I never saw where the samarian preached condemnation for ever getting into the mess in the first place ...and left him to *believe* his OWN way outta the mess he was in.... God said that HE was the good neighbor ... THAT was the example set for us... When I think how many times I turned my back on situations because *biblically* I didn`t think it was my responsibility ...and with clear conscious went about my way....it sickens me. See as time goes on...I realise that I can stop being mad at God and mistrusting the bible...it isn`t that the bible was untrustworthey.

Amen and AMEN! Wafer and ex 10.... ole twi had us completely do away with that commandment didn`t they whith their teaching about your *neighbor* was only your christian bretheren ???? Geeze slap the tag unbeliever on em and all responsibility to honor the 2nd commandment goes out the window... I cannot BELIEVE how many different ways twi taught us to wiggle out of our spiritual duty. ...hmmm sounds like another thread to me...lol

I don`t know John..... for the most part....folks don`t seem to have a problem with listening to each other in gspot....though many of us ARE acknowledged former cult members...lol [This message was edited by rascal on January 29, 2004 at 0:24.]

Wow mandii...*guilt trip for having these emotions....or fear trip of being posessed*... That is so true...I wonder why twi and other destructive religions worked so earnestly to squash these feelings? We were so schooled to think *only the word* that we totally ignored our own feelings ...our thoughts...our instincts...the voice of God.. It was like a filter on our brains...any thoughts of danger...of suspiscion...of self preservation....were filtered out by our fiercly held mindsets. I remember getting exasperated with one fellow I adored in twi...in all of the years I knew him...in all of the conversations we had...in all of the letters he wrote...he could only spout out line after line of scripture....no feelings no emotions...no events...I kept wondering *Where`s poor George in there*?? But that was the ideal....just walking scripture spouting zombies with no contradictory thoughts or emotions to clutter things up. I wonder if that is why emotions were so supressed? I wonder why they were considered so dangerous? Was there something to be feared? Is that why women who tended to be more emotional were squashed so mercilesly?

Now I`ll NEVER get that song outta my head... OmG Hope....TOO funny ...you have a gift!

Oh(((((((cw))))))) I am sorry....what horrible things they taught us.....I`ll bet your grandma loved you any way....maybe she understood...I know that we all did stupid stuff like that....those labels made it ok. I remember telling my grandmother once that her son who had died in college .... it was because his *believing* was wrong...gasp it was the one and only time that I know of that I have hurt her ... or ever truly seen her angry...I hope that we get a chance to apologise someday... We were so arrogant because of that label of spiritual elite.....sigh...

Geeze mandii...ain`t that the truth....I felt like in making myself fit in the twi jello mold...I had to pretend who I really was didn`t exist... Dreams .... desires... opinions...all were repressed so that I could become more spiritual/pleasing to God...needing to fit the mold of a virtuous woman.... When we left....Mark and I had no idea WHO or WHAT we really were .....without the twi mold to define all of our boundaries...was mighty scarey at first......even uncomfortable having to rediscover WHO we really were after 15 years.... Lol...I guess some would say that I traded in the twi *virtuous woman* mold, for opinionated loud mouthed bi tch mode ...

I have been thinking about how you are equating anger with bitterness in me, Chwester..... You know.... if the scriptures tell us to *be angry and sin not*.....seems to me that it is something that we are capable of doing....there are ways and times to be angry and not sin.......... Also....I remember reading where Jesus got angry....seems like I read in the bible about how God got angry a time or two as well and wiped out most of the planet ...... Seriously...I am asking....can you show me scripturally , where it says that I cannot be angry when the situation warrents it? [This message was edited by rascal on January 25, 2004 at 10:25.]

*unbeliever* family members absolved you of all responsibility to your parents and syblings.... sickness or calamity was due to *sin* in ones life...once again that persons fault...you were absolved of any duty to help or care...... Leader would label any personal interests as *wordly* ie college career...hobbies...then they were able to be considered unimportant and highly discouraged.....

Have you ever noticed how we were taught in twi to *label* everything? I mean if you didn`t want to listen to what one had to say....rather than just call them a *poopey haid* like you would have as a child....instead you call or label them as a rank *unbeliever* then...they had no importance...right or wrong their pov was not valid...you didn`t have to treat them well... If you didn`t like someone...just label them spiritually *suspicious* and you could behave outragiously towards them...treat them badly they deserved it... It seems like it is a hard mindset to break.... even years out of twi and I see it still happening... If I talk about being angry over evil perpetrated upon myself or others...I have just been labled *bitter*...that changes everything...makes ME the one in the wrong now... Slap the label *victim* on those who speak up...and it is now time for them to quit being a perpetual whiner...once again...those who commited the crimes are not in the wrong...it`s ok to excuse them... I see someone comes along and expresses an opposing view point...contrary to the way doctrine...well then slap the lable *pagan* or *unbeliever* (or even agent of darkness as in my case lol)and their point becomes invalid of no value...they deserve no respect....not worthey of consideration, Label someone *leader* and most anything done is now considered excusable... It`s a mindset that closes one off from a whole host of wonderfull folks with great insight...ideas that could really help. I

Chwester........that is a rather foolish thing to say.........I like you...really I do...I spent 20 years thinking JUST the same way....however, you do not know me very well...... Your assumptions about me being bitter are wrong.....there is no need for your sorrow .....please it really doesn`t matter to me if they remember what they did or not...probably most have slapped labels on us to justify their behavior and assuage their evil conscious long since........however...*I* do rmembber ..vividly...I feel the loss....and so does God....hopefully they will be held accountable for the using the scriptures and God as their tools to gain trust and then hurt........if I remember my bible correctly...he takes a mighty dim view of those who do such things...I reckon unless they do some MAJOR repenting ( which consists of ever so much MORE than oh well too bad SOOOO sad...just get over it you whiner) they will be in mighty deep kimshee someday...hope I get to watch...I`ll take a center seat maybe even bring some pop corn and enjoy the show :-) One can be quite angry over injustices suffered and NOT be consumed by bitterness.....it is a mighty small part of my life and who I am bro.... Seriously...One can detest evil wrought ........really it is ok....it`s apropriate! Pretending it never happened .... hiding it ...feeling ashamed...for decades...thinking that it was all my fault...now THAT was unhealthy... [This message was edited by rascal on January 24, 2004 at 22:31.]

Hey daryl.... have met and enjoyed your company in chat.... Sounds like you have gained some strengtgh....glad that you felt comfortable enough to be *you* :-) That is kind of what I am doing as well...relishing being allowed to be *me* since leaving twi....though not to the extent that you had to hide.....I too had to smother who I was ...being a woman in twi... there were a lot of thoughts/behaviors/likes that were not tolerated [This message was edited by rascal on January 24, 2004 at 22:26.]

We had a crazy wow bro as well....sheeshe...maybe we kept passing the same one around.... We thought that loving our *little* guy was our responsibility and tried desperatly.... Though this one was never dangerous...He couldn`t get work...when my other bro wouldn`t accept a job unless they hired the problem too....he only lasted a week....... He never pulled his weight...always carped and whined... he was so miserable...he made everyone else as well.... Every decision made as a family he had to argue....I had no idea the toll that it had taken....things JUST weren`t working...I knew as the family coordinator.....it was my fault...it was all do to my failings...so I decided my family was just better off without a lousey leader....what was I thinking...when I thought I could be one of God`s leaders???? Well the corpes in the area found me a week or two later and convinced me to at least talk to the lc .... I couldn`t fathom what for...I mean *I* was the lousey leader...all of the problems were my fault....what did they care about some sub standard wow/leader/corpes wannabe..... Now I have to tell you....it was with knees trembling that I stood before the lc`s wife...(the lc was out of town).... She asked me maybe one question about my situation...I mean shoot years of ministry indoctrination ....I knew that I was the screw up..... I mean ... I was the one who broke MY commitment...had left the field was living with an unbeliever....had turned my back on the ministry...*I* was the lowest of the low...there was more and worse...but will not go into it here.... Unbelievably...she skimmed right past that...no condemnation...no shame... and burrowed right to the source of the problem .......can`t even remember what gave her the clue that all was not well with the *little* wow bro...(the wows) never told anyone...but some how she got to asking questions....What do you MEAN he is only working 9 hours a week???? What the hell do you MEAN that it is from midnight til 2 am???? you mean YOU guys have been supporting him for the last three months??????? and various and other assundry questions...I was befuddled...mean here I was the one that needed to be struck down with the wrath of God...a pusilanimus puss worm that needed to be stepped on and squashed.......and here she kept asking about wow bro Next thing I know...I was told by a controlled but very angry sounding LC`s wife......YOU go back to that branch and tell EVERYONE to be at a at the bc`s house tomorrow night at 7 pm....an EVERYBODY`D better be there.... Well shoot ..... she showes up...everyone fearfull of the wrath of the lcw....everyone knowing who was in trouble...(me for taking an unauthorised vacation 3 months into the wow year)....and she shows up....maybe she is going to shame me in front of everyone I thought...maybe cast out some demonsbefore she warns everyone to stay away... She asked one question of the group at large ....and then zeroed in on wow bro....then asked question after question....and with every answere....she saw right past the whining I am doing the best I can feel so sorry for me......well inside of an hour she bought that boy a ticket home and had him on a bus that night.....she NEVER said anything about me...she had me resume my wow duties as if there had never been any question....everyone there was just agape.... Here *I* was the one that was slime...no mention no shame no condemnation...LC`s wife made known that I was in good standing...treated me with much love and respect in front of everyone.... she set the tone of love and respect for me that the rest of the corpes and consequently the rest of the believers followed...I am and will always be deeply gratefull...they picked me up hugged me and took away all of the hurt and shame....the condemnation.... Thing is...once she put her finger on it...we realised in deed what a difficult burden little *bro* had been...I mean shoot it was almost like a heavy cloud had been lifted...when we got home...we knew that she had truly seen things as they were....something we had not seen the bc`s had not seen...anyway..NT...if you ever read this...I will NEVER forget the love and support..... The year was really good after that....till a psycho app corpes guy mmanaged to run off ALL of the wows in his family with his crap....sigh we were given the oportunity to allow him to stay on the wow field by adopting him....well you know...we wanted to do the loving thing....well he made the last couple of months unpleasant...(he is the one who got rid of the kittens)

ISTW....really... I don`t want you to feel like you re being picked on either.... It is ok to disagree.... It is very hard to communicate in this medium......sometimes one appears mean when they have no intention of that at all....when I look back at my post maybe it apeared more harsh than I intended....sorry Shall I erase mine as well? Whatever else you are currently having to deal with....I wish you well....and am sorry if I upset you.

ISTW...MAYBE it is because you are picking on a poster here that is liked and respected...also in labeling/slamming the conclusions of their personal belief you might be skating mighty close to a personal attack. After the fiasco of what we *believed* in twi...and the horrendous results endured thereby....I hesitate to be judging the accuracy or fitness of ANYbody elses path of learning...sorry