rascal

Wht was it so important for infants to not be allowed to be babies? Why wer children were not allowed to be children? Why was it so important to squelch all of the things that are just natural for a child to do...to turn them into functioning non thinking little robots...not allowed to indulge in emotions...to steal their child hood away...to not allow them any normalicy such as a stable home...friends in school...outside twi activities like ball teams scouting etc? Why?

I knew of a lc...GW who proudly taught that he used to discipline his 6wk or 6 month old baby with a shoe lace... He would smack the baby with it when she wiggled during a diaper change...doesn`t sound like much ...but a shoe lace with that hard plastic on the end of it on baby flesh is horrible to think about....yeah like the infant could connect involuntary movement with that stinging lace...the dumb A-- Shoot babies that young would have no clue why they were getting stung at every diaper change.... these poor kids...and we just lapped it all up and earnestly applied it so that our children would grow up to obey god...grrrr

Yeah, policy changed a little...to *don`t use the spoon in public* cause ya just never know ...an unbeliever might see ya....n they just don`t understand don`tcha know ....n might report you...damn em

Damn...I remember my 3 yr old getting bellowed at by a prick of a tc for squirming during fellowship...not even making a noise..after nearly and hour of boooring teaching... I am ashamed that I was always angry with my son for bringing us shame....no I didn`t hit im...but I sure didn`t stop the tc from picking on the poor little guy and trying to enforce that rediculous standard at nearly every fellowship.

Yeah...LETS focus on cw and whether she likes to spank...it draws the attention from her daughters account ... from Lindy`s account... from Karmics account...My experiences... It detracts from the fact that you can`t even own up to calling us all liars in your defense of twi and it`s leaders..... Degenerate this into a thread about CW`s beliefs...and the original horror stories get buried... Typical SOP

OH no you don`t ....CW don`t let him draw you off on a tangent ...He is quite effective at burying the real issue at hand...This tactic has served Oldies VERY well in the past....whenever abuse topics arise...

Let me tell you friend...it`s a little hard to be objective when you are on the recieving end of evil.....matter of fact it tends to .... you off. It has been commonly reported....Abuse happened...Vp knew about it .... Vp was a sexual predator......Leaders that vp personally put into positions of authority abused and covered for abuse...beating the snot outta the mini corpes WAS condoned... Every single one of those situations have been personally attested to by posters here ... Dems the facts Jack! Please... try to deal with THEM in an objective manner will ya? Rather than hinting that it never happened and that we are all liars.

Oldies....go right ahead...say it...say what you REALLY mean .... YOU PEOPLE ARE LYING!!! Cool waters I don`t believe that you had letters from vpw Rascal, not only do I not believe cw ...I don`t believe your friends independant cooberation... Lindy...that couldn`t be the accepted standard for mini corpes...you must be mistaken.... I didn`t hear it taught so it didn`t happen... I didn`t see vpw do it so it wasn`t officially condoned.... If it really happened people would have walked away long ago... Heres a clue...they DID!!! Plenty of us....and most of those that DID report it ..AS you have read ...were THROWN out so that they couldn`t tell any one else.... Oldies...in order to hold fast to your beliefs...you have to dismiss an awfull lot of hurt and damage....an awfull lot of people ...by branding them liars...whiners...exagerators... all this in order to maintain your pristine image.... all of this in defense of the man and the ministry that are directly responsible for the perpetrated the evil. In your defense of them...for your own peace of mind ...you have to make all of us somehow seem not creditable...that really sucks. Oldies...more and more I think you must have some sort of vested interest in making twi look acceptable....no reasonable person with access to the volumes of info that you have had could still defend this bunch.

This account oughtta go on the child abuse thread as well.... Contact a lawyer anyway....one of the major reasons twi has gotten away with what they have all of these years is because people were talked out of seeking legal recourse. I`d still be ....ed....no ...you aren`t going to sue your mom....but a letter letting her know that contrary to her belief....it was NOT a gift from God...that you personally had to pay her tab ....what she owes you....with interest ...had that money been reasonably invested as was intended by the court .....would get the message across ...ie she screwed her kid for twi... Long as she can delude herself and feel like it was a *gift* from God...she doesn`t have to get honest with herself or you or God.

Awww damn Lindy...I am sorry...I never dreamed how bad it was for you youngsters... I lived with a family corpes woman and her teen son...was always so envious of you guys who had parents in the *word*...thought *how MARVELOUS* to be able to go in the corpes with them...all that direction and guidance to become some sort of super spiritual christian....I am SO sorry ... I was so clueless....concerning what you and the rest of the ministry kids went through....

Geeze georgio...that really sucks...I am sure that your Mom had someone telling her that crap about it being a *gift* and leaning on her to go into the corpes.....What a load of crap.. YOU suffer horribly...YOU give up a college education...and she calls it a *gift* I think you might have a case against both.... I don`t know ...my advice is to maybe talk to an attorney....child stars sue their folks years later for misapropriation of their earnings. I know that My Dad`s Mom was able to sue his Dad a couple of years ago for child support never paid from over 30 years ago...so maybe you have a chance... That not withstanding...I would mail her a bill...I would tell her that *I* paid the tab for her foolishness.... and I damn well expected to be recompensed.

Damn (((CW))) I thought you were being quite restrained considering the subject.... I am sorry that in retelling this ...that you are disturbed to the point of dreaming about it...thinking about it all day... it`s like your getting beat up all over again.... Karmic...it should have never happened..I will say nothing else because you asked us not to...other than thank you. It is indeed why twi bore putrid fruit....I think that oughtta be mounted, framed and then hung up somewhere around here.

Does it matter that I have independant corroboration of cw`s account from years ago ...not only from a different mother who experienced the same horror in cw`s area.......I also met someone who knew this guy to have been caught having molested most of the children (including hers) in their state BEFORE being sent to alaska?? According to her...the parents were told that the ministry would take care of this *in house*....they find out later that he was simply sent to a different state... I`d say that constitues facillitation... 3 different people telling the same story independantly of each other....years apart.... Apparently ...the bot knew ... they talked the parents out of prosecuting....he was then put in a position with access to yet more children.... They THEN try to shut cw and her family up through threats and intimidation....whew...how many more times would they have covered for this guy if legal action hadn`t been brought to bear? Cw had SAID she had coroborrating letters from vpw and lcm .....does this mean that you are calling her account a lie oldies?

I will tell Tannis that someone is looking for david... I believe Sandy might have been Davids first wife.

Yeah...what about the father that offered to give his daughters to the crowds to *use* in order to honor his vow of hospitality ??... Think thats pretty reprehensible as well....course in that culture I guess they weren`t valued as much.... I can see old lot now....Sorry girls...but you know the rules....

Freaky...AMEN Sistah!!!! that is so profoundly true.. What it all seems to boil down to for me in the lowest common denominator is....am I loving God ??? and ... am I loving my neighbor? After that ..... all of the rest of lifes dilemas do not seem to matter ...whether there is a trinity or no...are the dead alive or no....are we living in the end times....rapture before or after.....whether fellowship with twi the baptist the catholic... christian...other...all of the questions that plague us ... cause the most heated argument ..and divisions....what ever the answere may be.....in reality ...imo changes our basic responsibility in no way... p.S. LOVED the pizzeria scenario T Grey....You have us all SO pegged.

Teletubbies...easily

Awww Geeze wth...at least have the guts to stand by what you said....now you are dancing around and backpeddaling......sheeshe...You said early on in your post that you didn`t believe the accounts of vp`s abuse....ie...those (some of whom post here) who related their experiences are liars.... You also make many claims about the folks angry over the accounts of being impotent...bitter....overexagerating....doesn`t sound like you are in the middle at to me. What do you think of the child abuse thread WTH? Think folks are guilty of being unfairly antagonistic over there as well? Guess I would too if my kid had been molested by a leader whom was a known pedophile....a leader whom had been placed in the area with vpw`s FULL awareness. Damn right I have no use for your *great man of faith* or his destructive ministry.

WTH defends themself with claims that this is a board for openly exchanging ideas... Heres a clue wth .... calling the posters here exagerating whiners and declaring anyone who posted of his crimes as liars is is NOT sharing ideas for discussion and debate.... You come out slamming people here....being disrespectfull...you are going to catch some flack

WTH..check out the child abuse thread... THAT is the legacy of your precious vpw and his oh so special ministry.....you want to call the parents who lost their children forever to the state...the sweet babies that endured the abuse....impotent, overexagerating whiners????? Yup...THAT is what twi and vpw will be remembered for...I am sure .. We aren`t all liars.... you who want to rewrite history will NEVER be able to plug up all of the holes...

Oh HE LL no ... they had better NOT even TRY to mess with you....You wanna see it hit the fan...we`ll have the biggest gspot ralley you ever saw ...right in your back yard.... (((( CW)))) Thank you for sharing...Thank you for breaking the silence.... You are not the first to post of the alaska mess...so I doubt they will do anything to you. They can`t hurt you any more....all they can do is scurry for cover like the cock roaches they are when the lights come on exposing their disgusting activities.

Technon...welcome to gspot....not to worry...nobody directly suspects you....the information is intended as an alert to you as well... Not everyone is as they appear to be....true...but time always tells....as you continue to post and learn the ropes you will understand folks caution....so again...Let me say welcome... don`t take people being cautious personally... we ought to have a list of things to be aware of for new posters...lol

Me too ...I wanna see!!

And just HOW would local leadership have known to burglarize your home for vpw`s letters, unless HQ told local boys to go get any incriminating evidence....GEEEZE C Y A--.... To hell with what you poor believers suffered...... your children were enduring....get those letters so that the ministry isn`t blamed.... Shoot cw do you realise that if you hadn`t notified the authorities.... hadn`t had the guts to persevere in spite of the intimidation...in spite of your being branded evil ...these guys would have continued on ...WITH the ministries full awareness?? That these guys might full well have continued to move from state to state wreaking devistation?? Thank you...I am serious...THANKYOU for all of the families and children you guys spared the horror of this situation... YOU endured hell standing up for what was right...it would have been easier to tuck tail and run...I dare say that many of us might have... I am not trying to be mellow dramatic when I say that there is no telling how many of us were living in the states next in line for these fellows *assignements*. Fresh victims to be preyed upon.......On behalf of all of the children spared by your actions (as they very well could have been mine next)..... Parents will never know whether it was their children and families NEXT in line for destruction...never know that it was you folks who prevented the destruction from reaching them.. I say again...Thankyou...thankyou both to you and your husband for having the courage to get these guys stopped. [This message was edited by rascal on February 12, 2004 at 13:52.]

Aw cw...you guys survived...THAT is amazing...you must be rock solid strong....I read posts from one woman who never saw her children again after that incident. I don`t know how folks can defend this organization...apparently....hq not only knew this stuff went on...it FACILITATED the perpetrators activities and PROTECTED them from prosecution......I frankly don`t understand why you don`t come unglued every time someone does.....