rascal

Thanks Bramble........

Not till you take care of this business....WHAT part of cws post is a lie?

Stop calling ME an accuser...YOU were the one that said there were some parts of cool waters story that YOU didn`t agree with...YOU! I want you to tell me which part of cool waters story, in YOUR opinion are not true.... What part? that her kids were molested by leaders?? that they intimidated her? broke into her home? tried to stop her from reporting ? that they tried to prevent her from leaving? That vpw wrote her a letter? that lcm wrote her a letter? that Donna wrote her a letter? that these SAME leaders had been placed in her area in a place of authority BY twi AFTER it was discovered they were pedophiles??? which part of cw`s post EXACTLY do you disagree with oldies?? If you say what they post isn`true...than you are calling cw a liar ...plain and simple. I understand EXACTLY how this board works.... I am also aware of your methods of trying to discredit posters.....for some reason in order to make twi look good. Ummm WHAT was the topic again???? Oh yeah .... kids being abused in twi........it happened...twi wasn`t a nice place for kids.

((((((((((((((((((((mo))))))))))))) Great to see you posting again. I`d ask...Where is all of the gold hidden? Cathy

Just WHAT part of cool waters story do you doubt oldies??? On just exactly WHICH point are you declaring her a liar?

Oldies...I want to address the idea that a beating disuades a child from bigger mistakes further on in life. Not that this happened in twi....but this is what happens when a child is afraid of angering the parent.... Do you know that I was so afraid of making my mother mad...so afraid of the yelling and spankings (not that she spanked much) that I wouldn`t tell her about the pedophile that lived next door. I was MORE afraid of her anger than ANYTHING the pedophile did to me...How sick is THAT??? How much nicer it would have been had that bond of trust never been breached...How nice if she had found a way to manage her children without intimidating them into submission .... I made SO many HUGE mistakes ....that could have been avoided had I been able to go to Mom for guidance...but hey by golly, at least she had my unquestioning obedience. [This message was edited by rascal on February 26, 2004 at 12:24.]

There ya go......slam her/us good oldies...THAT will change what happened to the kids! I sure as heck don`t think I am wiser than soloman....however I DO believe that I am a hell of a lot better Mom than he ever was... See it`s programed into us oldies...YOU will never have nor understand the *mothering* instinct imbued in us by God.........twi tried to squash that out of us...tried to talk us out of it`s importance...tried to pretend that it didn`t exist....tried to make us ignore it. It`s the poor kids who suffered when we parents were *educated* by twi into not listening to that inner voice any more.

You are accusing us of accusing...we are simply telling what happened.

If twi didn`t condone it...then why was that bc transferred to ak after it was discovered that he and his friends had molested most of the kiddoes in the state through childrens fellowship....? If twi didn`t condone it...why were all of the parents bullied into shutting up....with promises that it would be taken care of *in house*? He was removed from one limb and placed into a position of authority and power in another state. He was given access to unsuspecting believers and their children .... Why oldies?? Who over saw the place ment of these guys? Why were CW`s letters from vpw lcm and donna stolen from her home?? How would the thieves know that cw had incriminating evidence and was going to blow the whistle on their sick little club?

Lets be *CLEAR* that the issue at hand is the child abuse that DID happen and WAS sanctioned in twi...not what the current belief of any poster is on striking with a spoon.

He was the same way about the sexual abuse threads and the abortion threads as well... same arguments ...same methods of distraction from the issue at hand... Whats the reason?

Morbid Half truth REALITY??? Oldies...may I remind you that cw is not the ONLY person to have come forth on this thread with their accounts of abuse???? Why are you picking on her??? Her account has been backed up by more than one longtime poster...the account of the same guys being in a state before hers and operating the same horrible manner...CAUGHT and transferred to ak has been told by yet another poster....parents intimidated into shutting up...children sexually abused from state to state.... Beatings ...intimidation...crimes ...it ALL happened in twi oldies.. Why are you attacking cool waters accounts?

I know Cat...this particular satan worshiper was making fun of the witches because according to him...they didn`t KNOW who they were serving...in his, the satan worshipers opinion. p.s....being a member of twi is not the necessary criteria for posting here....imf has plenty to contribute...doesn`t matter if they were in twi or not...imo.

Oldies...the WORST of these crimes DID happen in twi.....*beatings crimes and rapes* they are spoken of in this thread by those who endured .... whether or not the rod is biblical is not of any consequence... I agree...it is an issue designed to hide what really happened. Why do you want it hidden oldies? Why is it so important to you that twi look good?

As far as witches and their power.....I`d like to relates a story from my wow year... We had a teen coming to our fellowship...he said that most of the kids in his town/school of eurika springs were eitherinto the witchcraft or satanic worship...he himself was in the latter group.... He said that all of the satan worshipers in his group made fun of the witches...arrogantly proclaiming that at least THEY knew who they were serving.... Whether right or not....that was the pov of the satan worshipers...that the witches were just too stupid to acknowledge the source of their power....

There is NOTHING that a child can do *bad* enough to warrent a beating oldies... Cool waters is right...there are very effective ways to raise your child without taking out your bad temper on em.... Oh n by the way...congratulations on another derailment.

Contrary to your conclusion oldies...the beatings that I recieved....and there were only three that I remember..did nothing to educate me...only inspired hatrid against the ones administering said punishment... I knew...I could tell even at an early age....it was all about my parent relieving THEIR frustration...it rarely had anything to do with the issue at hand... You have been warped into thinking ...not only is this stuff acceptable....it`s desirable...I had much the same attitudes as you while in...and BEFORE having my children.... Untill you have children...you will never understand...and may God help you oldies with your mindset .... for the childs sake....I hope that you never do.

*learned hard heartedness and cruelty*...ya know oldies I seriously think that cool waters may have an excellent point....this possibly might explain your attitude.

I DID hear a person teaching.... they had prayed for folks to die....the folks did....it was held up as oooh wow look how great his believing was....we were all so impressed.... Also...second hand about some leader praying about some submarine that ended up sinking...cannot recall the details...but it was definatly ok to pray for evil people to die.

This thread has NOTHING to do with our belief in proverbs.... In THIS thread.....we are TALKING about sexual abuse...physical abuse and mental abuse...ALL of which happened in twi to these children.... Whether or not the spoon is biblical or not as NOTHING to do with the fact that it was used often visciously.... VPW DID know about it....DID try to cover it up...how the hell would the perverts know to break into cw`s house to steal the evidence if someone didn`t TELL them vp`s lcm`s and donna`s letters were in there eh?? Gotta get rid of the evidence lest t he ministry look bad.... You don`t have kids ....you didn`t see abuse....you have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to attack the credability of the posters...... What is it oldies? what is YOUR vested interest in covering for these criminals..eh?

(((oak)) you are of course aproaching things logically...and are in all probability correct....I guess that I am just plain ....ed off at what twi and his Mom got away with I`d still like to see what an attorney said before he was talked out of pursuing the issue.... (Thankyou for not taking my head off for being purely emotional and illogical:-)

Thanks for considering my pov JT...I didn`t figure it would sit very well...(the reason I live in a shoe is like the old lady... I have SO many children .....that I don`t know what to do..lol)

Oh Dott...your poor sister... Tell her that in our family....my husbands blood is positive...mine is neg...some of our children were negative...some are positive.... How stupid to propound a theory as truth that is so easily debunked.

Yeah oak..SHE was conned....so what?..as a direct result Georgio was abused and got majorly screwed...every reason in the WORLD to go after twi....imo Oak ..ALL of us *let it go* far TOO often...for far to many years...that is one of the reasons that twi still IS quite capable of hurting folks. If twi realises that the kids they abuse today can turn around and sue tomorrow...they just MIGHT make some policy changes that will ensure just a little better treatmen of the helpless ones... You KNOW the only thing that intimidates twi into changing harmfull policy is when the lawyer tell em they hafta or it`s gonna cost em major bucks... Georgio is entitled to compensation, whether leagally or not...it remains to be seen what an attorney recomends...I DO know that in SOME states ....there is no statute of limitations on some issues.... Go for it Georgio... Do you guys who want to sagely councel *forgive and move on* ....ever consider that THIS attitude ...granted it sounds nice.... could be a major reason WHY evil is able to flourish?? Consider the good that has resulted from the lawsuits brought against twi .... people demanding compensation for vile treatment have resulted in enormous policy change...it finally got that alleged predator lcm out of a position of authority for one.....glad not everyone decides to just *move on* or *let it go* I think that such actions by gutsy people who aren`t intimidated into shutting up...are heroic. [This message was edited by rascal on February 22, 2004 at 15:33.]

Amen Georgio!!! You were ROBBED...though no amount of money can EVER pay you back for the pain and suffering endured at that cults hands........I dearly hope that you can get some sort of compensation though.......... I would dearly love to see you hit twi where it hurts the most....their friggin pocket book! I also think that if what they did to you...comes back to bite em in the bu tt...MAYBE just maybe you can stop them from brutality against some of the other little georgios still at their mercy...now and in the future... Mess em up man....maybe they will stop hurting people [This message was edited by rascal on February 21, 2004 at 10:51.]