rascal

You know...whether we were negatively impacted personally at a given time...I have to ask. While we personally were enjoying our *good times* was an innocent brother or sister being destroyed? Was their life, their trust, being shattered by a leader demanding the unthinkable? In my mind it all boils down to being honest.... Through out the entire history of twi....while the rest of the ministry was having their happy times...there were men that were committing unconscionable evil, if not to us personally, to our brothers and sister. Betraying them in the vilest of ways, demanding and taking that which was never theirs in the name of God! Whether it be a struggling families money, or another mans wife. These people lived on the money that WE sent in, they were perceived as legitimate Christian leaders because of our endorsements....WE filled their bellies, WE paid the electric bill, WE gave them places to live, Bruno Mali shoes to wear 1000 dollar suits, etc Innocent people were attracted and became involved, believing in the healthiness of this organization because of OUR efforts. While our happy little fannies were sitting in fellowship singing standing on the promises...the young corpes girl was being given a drugged drink prior to molestation on the party bus. A family was being torn apart by a zealous leader in a ....ing contest, ailing family members died alone and unacknowledged because they were considered *natural man* families and of no value....a young woman brokenly submitted to an abortion required in order to not lose God`s blessings...a dead persons reputation was being savaged for failed believing. This crap was real and it happened. Yeah these guys were evil monsters, YET...they could have NEVER done this without the financial support and promotion of their group by us. So, deny you were involved in a cult if you want. As far as I am concerned intentional or not, we were an integral part of an organization that betrayed, and destroyed the lives of so many many innocent people in the name of God and facilitated by scriptures. Our youth, exuberance, witnessing, homes, etc were all the lure, what attracted people into the snare. I don`t know what else TO call it :( To deny the suffering, to pretend that the deaths do not matter, to try to sweep under the carpet the carnage of shattered lives, families torn asunder, even death of the innocent people who turned to this group to find spiritual healing and understanding, to minimalize the suffering endured because one is uncomfortable with ones involvement in a cult, is I think to say that the lives lost, our sisters and brother, our children the suffering were unimportant and inconsequential. Man up, take a good hard look at what happened, have some compassion for those whom were betrayed, rather than be so fragile that one can`t face the true facts of the organization that we committed our lives and hearts to, because the implications that we might have been mistaken, are too painful to contemplate.

I think our lives post twi say it all.

Thing is, that the ministry insists that you do horrible ungodly things in order to *serve*. In addition to sexual servitude, forced abortions, ignoring of family obligations, you are expected to submit to ungodly humiliation, unjust treatment, submit to cruel yelling, allow your finances, your sex life, whatever to be an open book to leaders. I`m telling you, that has nothing to do with serving God, it is all about service to an organization, an organization that exploits, torments, and decieves in God`s name. It`s nuts to think that you can serve God and tw...er man.

As far as serving a master, what about the verses talking about there being no more male nor female, BOND nor free? I think the verse quoted by oldies is yet another verse taken out of context to justify ensnaring and exploiting people who desired to serve God but ended up ensnared and supporting an abusive evil group of people. Evil men whom exploited good hearted people in the name of God were never intended to be our masters nor served , nor obeyed. They took that which wasn`t theirs by deceptively using scriptures.

These guys give holders of doctorates, theological stidents, seminary students, leaders, ministers, Christians and indeed even GOD a bad name. TWI posers never did the work necessary to achieve the above titles, they never had the morals or character to be any one of those things/ I have heard time and again VPW`s life described as a great christian man who simply made some mistakes. I personally believe that He were a very evil man who pretended to be Christian. Great men, good leaders, genuine Christians do not HAVE to lie about fake doctorates and invent false titles to get respect or status. I have a sneeking suspiscion that more than one twi leader/participant will arrive breathless looking for the Bema and the rewards and celebration...to only be told by no less than Jesus himself to *Depart, for I knew you not* :(

Kimberly, I am glad that you desire peace. It was never my intention to fight. I have an honest question though. Do you think that we can achieve this and still discuss opposing view points civily without it being percieved as a personal attack? Is it a requirement of peace that we only talk about things that aligne with a single view point? Oak Darling, I STILL have the doctorate that you bestowed upon me :) I`d say I worked a whole lot harder to get it than wierwille did his, the slimey poser.

These guys use their fake doctorates and false titles to give them a credibility and sense of character and integrety that they have never ever earned. There is a reason that a real doctorate takes years and years of hard work. It is all part of the character and stamina developed along the way. These guys never had the morals, the stamina, the character, not to mention being of the spirit to be a genuine minister for God. They had to buy their titles in order to decieve folks.

There were many many of us as young women in twi that were *counceled* to get abortions. People were told not to let a *paracite*, a *cluster of not yet alive cells* (no I am not kidding, this is how they view it) prevent them from serving God. I`d say that if your friend was considering going into any of the programs in twi, she would very likely face heavy coersion to put God first and have the *little problem* addressed. To fail to do so would be dissapointing God, a trick from Satan to keep her from her spiritual duty...etc It is a sick sad place. Anything you say that contradicts what they are telling her will be viewed as Satan using you to steal the word from her. I tell you this so that you can tread lightly friend. Your friendship might prove to be her anchor in the real world, even if it isn`t readily apparent.

Well FIRST off, to refer to my thoughts, or anyone else here as *yapping at our key boards* is I believe, completely lacking in respect and courtesy. A very convenient way to totally dismiss any understanding that God MIGHT have wrought in others hearts and lives to this point. A real screw you (like THATS real Jesus like) to those whom he has brought so very very far since leaving the spiritual corruption, moral bankruptcy, and darkness of association with twi and it`s leaders. To dismiss aothers point of view as simple *yapping* because you personally do not wish to consider that portion of Jesus` life or how he delt with the spiritual leaders whom were abusing and stealing in his name verses a fellow who simply messed up out of fear, is I believe to limit yourself in understanding of who he was, what his instructions were, and what our responsibilities are as Christians are today. You do as you please, but I think that to try to force someone to take the actions that you yourself deem as correct by presenting them as what Jesus would do hypothetically is treading in dangerous territory. Secondly, as a survivor of horrific abuse, I think that how you deal with what is necessary for personal peace and healing can be in a different catagory than what Jesus expects of us in the case of religious exploitation and abuse of spiritual leaders in the name of God. I think that we are talking about apples and oranges when we discuss the way Jesus delt with Peter and the way he delt with the pharacees and money changers. These people whom perpetuate the corrupt doctrines of twi, are attempting to once again ensnare people in God`s name. I think Jesus` conduct at the temple with the money changers and the pharacees makes it QUITE clear. WWJD??? Now that you mention it, I think it might be a lot of fun to decend on a sts at the auditorium brandishing a whip, turning flipping tables..... chase everyone out of the building yelling the most vile names that I can think of...Yeah that Jesus...what a GUY!! Sigh too darned bad that is considered illegal in todays world :)

OK, so what is apropriate for the people flying in to bring? Is there stuff we can pick up for the festivities after we arrive?

Funny thing about rape, about forced servitude, physical abuse, sexual abuse, our babies hurt, forced abortion, being alienated from family and friends, broken hearts, broken families, tens of thousands of lives destroyed. It tends to breed a bit of raging anger in those whom this great evil was perpetrated upon. These people, if they did not do this to us directly, did it to a beloved sister or brother. They did it in GOD`S name. If that doesn`t generate anger and disgust then I don`t know what in the world is wrong with you. As far as what would Jesus do? How about looking ar what HE said and did to the money changers and pharacees who hurt God`s people?? He freakin chased them around with whips and turned over tables...he called the pharacees some of the vilest names of the time....He didn`t sit by and allow people to steal in God`s name THAT`S for sure. This Bull sheet about Jesus not wanting us to be angry over the spiritual/physical/mental rape of so many, over the leading of tens of thousands into darkness..over the pain and shattered lives of so many innocent men women and children, ALL facilitated by scripture, IN God`s name or fail to see it as an absolute abomination, to me is unfathomable. Further morem to do it and act like it is the spiritualy healthy thing makes no sense. Frankly I am at a loss as to why anyone isn`t deeply offended that some punk is trying to recreate the same damned broken system that allowed the rampant abuse to flourish in the first place. Be concerned over my raging anger if you must Kimberly, but quite frankly your absence of understanding surrounding t he shattered lives, and abuse perpetrated in God`s name by ministers claiming to work for God, is to me baffeling and unnatural, like you don`t really comprehend the depths of the evil wrought, the impact on the survivors...it`s like something switched off inside...shrug. Whatever, your inapropriate invocation of what Jesus would do in the case of spiritual theft, abuse and manipulation by spiritual leaders in God`s name reminds me forcefully of the way scriptures in twi were brandished as a weapon to steal, to enforce compliance, and permit atrocities. To NOT shout from the roof tops what we know about the foundations of this group are, what the hidden dangers of following these new leaders, of what damage these doctrines present, is as far as I am concerned, unpardonable :( You may not understand my anger, you may not be comfortable with me expressing it, but that in no way makes it wrong or inapropriate or lacking in spirituality under these circumstances.

It turns out that THAT Princeton has nothing to do with the other school by that name. We have seen pictures and found out how meaningless his degrees and doctorate were as phoney as he was.

I did, I heard it many times. I`ll bet I am not the only one. It is neither fantasy nor wishful thinking. What I REALLY wish, is that twi had been as harmless or blameless as you would like everyone to believe. Wierwille did indeed portray himself as the only one who could teach us the word like it hadn`t been known since the 21st century. Anything or anyone else were simply non believing believers.

It was no different under Wierwille. Everything was required to be given to him as well. Remember when he took over the way east and west and threw out the guys that were responsible for the growth and movement? It was all about the abs not going directly to hq. That was when and why the way tree system was started. He couldn`t stand that the money wasn`t coming to him.

Not cheap no, but cheaper than the walk in price of 159.00. As I understand it the hotels are pretty loaded up with storm refugees still, so was pleased to find room at the inn ...lol

Thanks Wolf.

Mark says that the La Quinta nearest the new location will give a group rate of 105.00 but you have to tell them that it if for a Greasespotter.

I guess that sounds pretty rediculous to me. We discuss what happened and then we form our own opinions as to why. So folks get outraged as to what these pervs did in God`s name, and express that opinion...shrug I don`t understand trying to hide the evil perpetrated or not examining the ominous implications of men and women whom could behave in such a way. That is what Greasespot is here for, to tell the OTHER side of the story...OURS! The story that twi managed to keep silent through intimidation, manipulation, excomunication, lies, slandered reputations, and millions in legal fees. Darned RIGHT many of us have an opinion on that, and gosh darn it, are free to express it, as distasteful as some may find it, as doggedly as a few have tried to once again silence the voices of those mistreated and abused.

Two hands from Tenn. I am sorry for these added difficulties. I can`t change our plane tickets, so will be in town bbq or no...lol. We have only found one hotel in the new area that is still accepting reservations. Mark is trying to find out if we can get some kind of group rate or something if anyone else is interested.

I have actually seen that as well Geisha. The attorney for the other side was allowed to make absurd accusations towards my friends accuse them of all kinds of things, told lies about the condition of the ware house, etc. My friends had spent everything that they had to try to clear their name. They would have had to sell their house and business to pay legal fees. Their attorney told them that they would win, that the paper work backed them up entirely, but that in winning the court case, they would lose everything. The people who had the most money to keep paying their attorney to keep stalling until my friends ran out of money won, and then...go figure the attorney magically became the president of the new board, the accuser vp, her friends all voted off the remaining members and seized the charity that my friends had started from a garage and managed to raise 100s of thousands of dollars to help battered women and children was taken from them their reputations destroyed. The accusers never had to answere for the slander. Of course being a small town, it`s all who you know, and the newspaper only reported it from the accusers perspective. All very sensational that way, and they never printed a retraction. You have a very valid point Geisha. I am truly thankful to Pawtucket for this site so that we can tell people what twi`s millions in attornies, and hush money have been able to keep secret from the public for so many many years.

That is indeed what is wonderful about a court of LAW! What is equally terrific is having a forum available for DISCUSSION concerning our experiences and interactions with perpetrators of great evil and the subsequent impact upon our lives. What a concept :)

Ewwwww I resent people implying that this is in any way carry over from the 80s. It was NEVER that bad.

The thing IS Mark.... Having the *truth* doesn`t seem to have prevented these guys from being incredibly evil in the first place. Their new and better understanding doesn`t seem to have impressed upon them the need for Godly sorrow and repentance, much less making amends to those whom they have wronged. One and all they seem to believe that their Knowledge makes it ok to erase history, to procede as if they have no responsibility to those whom they savaged and attempted to destroy, that the victims of their cruelty are owed nothing, not even an apology. Thinking that one`s grasp of the truth is going to make one spiritual is, I believe a fallacy that is carried over from twi. The Knowledge and the truth from what I have seen seems to only puff them up. They seem to have never lost their twi aquired arrogance. Yet the churches that are so spurned because of their supposed lack of understanding seem to actually understand and operate *Love God and Love your neighbor*. They can walk as Christian`s, genuine and exhibiting the signs listed in Galatians as being *of the spirit* They seem to function as men and women of the spirit, as opposed to digging out *truths* that supposedly dismiss them from the responsibility of having to behave as a genuine Christian, or exhibit the fruits.

What saddens me in reading this thread is that I knew some of the people mentioned when they were young and just like the rest of us. Sweet people with a love for God. Sigh, It amazes me that association with twi could twist and change folks into the monsters that I read about today :( I know that folks didn`t start out wanting to be peoples worst nightmares :(

You guys are all in our thoughts and prayers.