rascal

Geeze Galen ...I`m not SAYING not to abort...abort or not life or not it is all about being told that God desires/requires this of you. It is about having no other option if you want to remain in the center of God`s will...rather than succumbing to the scheme of the adversary. It is about being talked into not doing what I felt was right because *feelings* were only 5 senses emotions that were preventing me from honoring my commitment to God. It`s about using God`s name supposition and scripture manipulation to ensure obediance

Ya know oldies, I truly wish it were all a big lie...I wish it with all of my heart...I would give anything if it were all just a really bad dream......it brings me no pleasure to keep defending myself to you and others who want to excuse twi`s unpardonable evil........ Oh and by the way...how do the REST of you guys feel about your abs going to pay for womens abortions in twi? Ain`t THAT a kick in the gut when you were living on mac n cheese? Oldies, you are taking a horrible wrong perpetrated and and trying to make it appear ok...even going so far as calling it *charitable*....YOU are defending evil...attempting to change the scenario so that twi appears blameless....YOU are whitewashing and covering for evil and belittling the consequences and those who suffered....YOU are attempting to cover for evil wrought... What kind of person are you? Never mind...it`s just a retorical question... Folks who came to my defense...thankyou, I cannot tell you how much I apreciated your support right then...just when I get completely discouraged with perception here...or my inability to communicate ...you come to my rescue with clarification and support ...I humbly thank you.

Aww thanks lifted, You explain things better than I do....your attempt to balance fairly....is as always apreciated. Mj you don`t have a CLUE about how I feel ...you are reading much into my posts that is not there.....Let me set you straight. My rage is with a group who used scripture to bully ...a group who insisted that God required me and others to murder an unborn child. My rage is with a group who claimed that they spoke for God ...who told me the ONLY choices were love God and destroy the fetus or serve satan and eventually die anyway. What they taught was NOT the *bibles words or insight* Gawd.......... It blows my mind that you would classify coerced abortion as such and use that as a reason to say that it was ok.,....and that I need to get over it....that you are even defending such a group by pointing your finger at me.....just blows my mind...yeah I am culpable...no doubt about it....I live with it...this isn`t something that can ever be *fixed* or righted....or will go away...my guilt is permanent ..I can`t go back and make that baby *live* again. I can only attempt to be a better person for the rest of my life....but this is about what THEY taught and did in GOD`S name and it was HEINOUS!

Mj ...I think that you are dead wrong when you try to extrapolate on whether or not I can face my responsibility....I DO unequivicably accept my responsibility... believe me it came crashing down on me in blinding technicolor all to clearly years later...... What *I* hold twi accountable for is forcing me into an untenable position....do this and love God or don`t and die spiritually. God didn`t demand I destroy that fetus...I absolutely did not want to destroy that fetus...fetus is destroyed because those that I trusted insisted that God almighty creater of the heavens and the universe REQUIRED this of me. What I WANTED didn`t come into play because that was just 5 sences nonsense that couldn`t be trusted. Unfortunatly it really was my concious and common sense screaming at the top of it`s might to get my attention...but good little wafer that I was ...I ran scripture through my brain to shut it out as well as the very voice of God...so that I could endure what it was God/twi required of me. It has nothing to DO with my acceptance of responsibility...and EVERYTHING about manipulating scripture to farce someone to do that which is abhorrant to them.

SIDETRACKED?????? ALLEGED???? I told you what IS taught in twi to ladies who found themselves in my uneviable position.......and have been backed up in my account byby several posters on more than one occasion who were taught the same thing! This isn`t some vague memory of some teaching I once read somewhere oldies...I am relating to you life and death decisions that I/we were bullied into making WITH the scriptural gobbeldy gook provided that was used to ensure obediance. This IS What twi taught....whatever you may remember was the pap that they fed to those who weren`t *spiritual* enough to handle the greater *truths*. I am SO proud of the *stand* that I took for God...why, I think there oughtta be a special crown for my willing obedience...don`t cha think?

You were free to leave...only if you didn`t mind being posessed/contaminated spiritually.....no longer worthy to be in the presence of God OR his people due to your depravity. Suuure you could leave the wow field/way corpes ...but at the cost of everything and everyone you held dear....shoot you were going to let a little ole *parasite* interfere with your duty to God/household/family???? Where was your commitment? where was your love for God? You owed him so much...and yet you were willing to be branded a vow breaker ...heed satans trickery in being talked out of your commitment ...when all that was needed was a simple sterile little procedure to make everything magically *all right* again?????? Sides..if you DO go against God`s will and carry this child ...it will be deformed or posessed because God wont be with you any more. Cannot convey the contempt ...the scorn dripping tone that this was all conveyed with... Second thoughts?? it`s satan stealing the word from you... Shoot I actually fled from the first *appt* but was *counceled* to return....mustn`t let satan distract me with 2nd thoughts....or allow myself to be swayed by 5 senses *feelings* ...upset? feeling desperate..that it was wrong? shoot just speak in tongues and do scripture retemories....can only think one thought at a time ya know??? this time I was accompanied by a couple of leaders to make sure I didn`t chicken out.... n then was rewarded with a big weekend at the lc`s home afterward to celebrate my spiritual maturity in making the *Godly* dedcision....man wasn`t *I* special. I`ll bet God was so proud of me THAT day...

It was very cut and dry oldies...several posters here have verified that the same scriptures and logic were used to insist that the child be aborted. The *uzi* held to my temple was Shame of disobeying God ... Shame of dissapointing God.... Fear of being *taken out* by Satan now that I was no longer in the center of God`s will. Fear of being possessed because of being a liar ...a vow breaker and not meek to the direction of my/God`s leadership. The ammunition in that uzi was much more terrifying than meer steel jacketed bullets :-(

What they *said* to you and what they *did* to others are to entirely different things oldies... If you were corpes in training or wow or had intentions of being either, If you became pregnant....You must have an abortion...period. God required this of anyone who was spiritually committed...to NOT do so would be to lie to God to be a breaker of vows ....to allow a *parasite* to prevent you from completeing your commitment meant that you had allowed satan to trick you....you had let God down. It was not just me who was held to this standard ... there was a whole teaching schpeal that was trotted out for any of us who might have considered wavering in our duty and commitment to God...the same logic the same verses...different leaders different areas.... No doubt God was absolutly delighted with our loyalty to him and commitment to HIS cause ...as he watched us demonstrate our spiritual maturity...the ultimate test of our loyalty ... as we submitted ourselves and allowed our fetus/children to be butchered in HIS name for HIS service..... I know how proud *I* feel....in hindsight ... having given my utmost for his highest:-(

Oldies ...I beg to differ Twi taught us women whom were pregnant at an *incovenient* time.... that abortion right and was necessary up untill to the first breath after birth WAS acceptable....none of this third trimester junk. The TRICK was ...not letting it get that first breath...thus partial birth was acceptable and noble if it was done in order so mom could finish her spiritual *duties*. I know a couple of women who were *counceled* that their abortion after 6 months was still ok ...just as long as the baby wasn`t allowed to take that first breath. I know that we were taught that the fetus ..untill it took it`s first breath ...no matter how old even at 9 months....that it was still considered a parasite because it was dependant upon it`s mother/host. The fetus wasn`t alive till first breath because oxygen carried the life into the blood...well D`uh .... the fetus has oxygen in it`s blood BEFORE birth as well ...it just comes through the mother... It`s all lies...

Wireless router? Splain please.... Will that get me to gspot?? I met a truck driver that has managed to get his internet on his lap top through his cell phone on his weekend miniutes....even though the phone co doesn`t like it..... Any idea how I would do that? I need to add that it was bought off ebay from a guy outta England.... we seem to be running into some problems....I hope that all of the snarls work out....am starting to get anxious with the amount of time that it has taken.

AWWWW Thanks you guys ...you all make me feel like a million bucks:-) It was a very nice birthda, thanks for asking shell ... lots of handmade cards from the kids...lots of hugs and smooches ....I had to work so I treated myself to some take out my favorite chinese restauraunt while I guarded the cookies. Guest Spouse suprised me with a picture from ebay of what he had bought me but had not yet arrived ...a LAP TOP!!!! I have been wanting one to use at work...but never dared dream that I would get one any time before the kids grew up...lol sometimes that spouse is all right ! Thanks for your well wishes ....you all mean so much to me!

Ok so now you admit there were victims...but they are simply too *excessive in their victim mentality* for your personal tastes? Have I got it right oldies? Gee heres a thought...maybe there wouldn`t BE *victim mentality* and *hate of Vp* if he hadn`t VICTIMIZED and abused those whom he promised he would *teachthewordlikeithadn`tbeenknownsincethefirstcentury* ....thereby destroying his credibility and any respect we might have had for him...D`uh You act like it is OUR fault that he was such a creep...that he chose to exercise so very little morality or decency of character...why would it annoy YOU that we despise HIM for his cruelty to our brothers and sisters in christ? Why is it so important for YOU to defend such a despicable character? Why must you slam us for not wearing our rose colored glasses anymore?

I`ll add a false vpw teaching Juan...only christian believers were our *neighbors* ie we didn`t need to apply any biblical standards of decency or behavior to ANYONE outside the body of christ not our parents...syblings friends.....nobody was worthy of kindness generosity time effort...they were just animals *breathin our air*...that lets twi folks off of a lot biblically. When reading the passage of the good samaritan....clearly Jesus stated that the SAMARITAN...despised of the jews...WAS the *good* neighbor...in direct conflict with wierwille`s teaching

Oldies...I thought I read in your posts that you had never met him... sorry for getting you confused with the other wierwille fan....my bad.

well MAYBE... when folks quit venerating vp and worshipping his works...and expecting us to do likewise.......we will quit pointing out the reasons WHY we don`t have any need to love or respect him OR his mishmash of plagerised/scripture twisting/life destroying doctrines :-) The very bible he so exhalted...condemns him, his actions and his ministry soundly..... I am sorry ...but those who knew him have tried to tell you ..who have NEVER met him that he just wasn`t a very nice man. Ya bought the show oldies....thats all...and it would apear that you are mad because the rest of us refuse to be swindled any longer.

Shoot wierwille`s life and actions condemn him far more soundly than we ever could...lol Grizz, as far as recent history vs distant history...it is all necessary...You who are familiar with the *present* darkness can warn and make folks aware, those with information regarding past evil can present that .... it`s all needed ...all good, it all adds pieces to the puzzel for those attempting to view the whole picture...as well as sets people free from the bondage of false ideas and conceptions that were taught by untrustworthey sources.

Wow, Dott, Thankyou for identifying and articulating this so well.... I have noticed this same pattern...and with growing vexation have watched him generally succede in his attempt to discredit posters ...their accounts...eventually to derail the thread when he can`t...(I still wonder what his agenda is...it sure isn`t to participate) Oldies ....you treat the people here dispicably...the folks whom are giving first hand accounts of the vileness of character exhibited by vp wierwille... a man whom you never met.... Your attacks and manipulation of your brothers and sisters in christ here and now ...people whom are no doubt very dear to God....in defense of the wolf that devoured and destroyed so much....makes it pretty clear to most of us just which side of the *fence* you are on....buddy. Dott I will add that if operating true to form...once being nailed with no wiggle room.......there will be the attempt to garner sympathy...in a don`t be so mean to poor old oldies campaign...generally he succedes ....

I/we gave our all ....how sad that they didn`t. There might have been a whole lot of good accomplished had our efforts been matched ....rather than being hijacked by self serving individuals.

Damn MrMoonlight...tough tough spot to be in....but I know that YOU know your kiddoes need you...sure wouldn`t want to leave em unprotected with twi influence. Bless your heart for being strong for them...welcome to gspot....how bout a cup o coffee to wash out that koolaid taste? I`m buyin :-)

The POINT was oldies.....that it isn`t a QUESTION of me not cutting the ministry any slack because of a person who hurt me... sweet heart.... The POINT was, that twi doesn`t want OR need me back.... that because of the state of my spiritual degradation...I am no longer considered to be worthy to be a friend to one who is in.

Oldies you are are liar...nobody has said anything ugly to wonder...only polite responses to the question asked.... Just like you cannot post the name of one poster (yoas YOu have said) who really believes that we women are mindless perpetual victim wanna be`s....yet you are perpetually saying that is our mindset... Just like you call us liars ...but you won`t specifically say who is telling which particular lie.... You are constantly accusing folks here of mind sets that aren`t ours...or of saying things we haven`t....or assigning mindsets that are not ours.... All you DO here is point fingers and falsly accuse, because what we say makes it blatantly obvious that wierwille twi and his handpicked leaders are not what they portrayed themselves to be........ You are one nasty customer....

Yeah, I might add ....nobody yet has called to tell where they moved the fellowship to....or indicated that I am spiritually sharp enough to be invited to participate with the spiritual elite again.... I DID run unexpectedly into a long time, one time BEST twi friend from another state a thousand miles away...recently.....though they lived in a state far away...though both of us had moved several times since knowing each other in twi....in spite of meeting in a state we were temporarily visiting...in a location that neither of us knew the other was in....after not seeing each other for 15 years...they wouldn`t even let me take them to lunch...or come to my home or had any desire to meet the 6 children that had been born to me since our last get together.... despite the fact that when we had known and very much loved ...and were respected and loved BY the *believer* while we were *in* for years......sigh I still am not *good* enough for one of the household to risk the contamination of hanging out with one who isn`t spiritually worthey....

I`ll add my greetings wonder....welcome to gspot. I have to agree with the other posters...what drove many ofus out of twi was so much more than simply a person. Actually many of us were forced to leave...Any of us who ever stood up and said "No"...when ordered by the mog to obey an ungodly edict...were promptly marked and avoided...others of us were simply ignored and not told when the fellowship moved to a different location....simply because our lack of obediance made us spiritually suspicious.... Many of us never *left& the ministry...it left us.

Amen Rafe....*men of God ought NOT to be doing such things*.

Shaz...omg...THAT nails it....LOVE! Everything I did was because I was told that was how to best love/serve God...Every agonising decision boiled down to *If I didn`t comply, it was because I didn`t love God or my bretheren enough*... Thanks Shaz....one of those blinding flash technicolor moments wgere things make sense all of a sudden.