rascal

Anyone NOT in twi were *human debris* *spiritual waste* and damn em...just *breathing MY air*

Well ...lets see...at 18 I had great *heart* and *meekness* *desire to do the word* great *potential*....etc...then leadership changed....and within three months I was labeled *posessed* when I told my tc to leave me alone when she dragged me outta bed by the leg and I hit the floor at 8 am (after I had worked all night) because I had not vaccumed the stairs yet (like they wouldda wanted me to do it at 5 am when I arrived home?) ...How n the heck DID I become soooo evil in such a short span of time...completely without effort and unbeknownst to myself??? Whats funny is that it never occured to me at the time to doubt her evaluation.....I just slunk off to await my spiritual *death* withdrawn from everyone....hiding hoping no believers would discover my secret shame.

How bout *homosexual* ...it was a label pinned on many women who were not *meek* enough ...I had two friends....one married and the mother of numerous children who was thrown out for that on spiritual *suspicion* ...she almost lost her husband before he decided to not believe what leadership said and left with her. Another friend was m&a for *suspicion* of being a homosexual as well...she is now happily married with children last I heard.... Damn .... such destructive labels and actions to take on women who`s biggest sin... I believe was to be a tad to assertive in the presence of male leadership.

ww.. It was sung a lot when I got involved ...was supposed to get your circulation going...wake you up etc... *father abraham had two sons... two sons had faaather aberham they didn`nt laugh NO! they didn`t cry NO! ... this is what they did.....with the RIGHT hand....and you`d sing it all over again with your arm flailing then both then both legs....omg ...we looked like such freaks all singing this song flailing arms and hamds and head.....while we sang...later we found out that it was asong making fun of abraham lincolns autistic or retarded boys....gawd...we HAD to be brainwashed to do such a stupid thing in public.....

Not just single women...married women had to abort as well if they found themselves in this situation...twi was equal oportunity inthat department. I knew one who`s husband demanded that she do so rather than interfer with both of their corpes commitments.

All of those excellent reasons for NOT allowing pregnancy in the corpes wow field were NOT what was taught.... Again mj....It was TAUGHT that GOD demanded that we abort these children...leaving the wow field leaving the way corpes because of refusal to abort was letting Satan win... THAT is not the same thing at all as the reasons you are giving to justify their demands for complete loyalty to God and his ministry. As I said chosing to discontinue service and training was an option only if you wished to die spiritually.... p.s....I think mrs. w leaving her infant for three months to travel to India was atrocious....I think she was the first victim of twi leadership pressure....but you are right..it WAS held up as an exemplary example of putting God first....

Who`s angry and doesn`t leave a productive life??? Geeze Don`thave a good relationship with my uncle???roflmao ...you intimate I am nuts.... consistantly have accused me of misrepresenting the facts.... completely misrepresent my posts........but you are sorry that I don`t have a good relationship with my uncle??? (I am nuts about him...he is my favoritebtw) I can address you and it is possible for you to address me in return without attacks mj.... It is also possible to be very angry over the betrayal from those we trusted ... there were so many outragious acts perpetrated on us and those we loved.....sheeshe...it is wierd to me how anybody is NOT to offended by these sanctimonious fools who dared claim that they spoke for the almighty God. That is a far cry from being depressed needing drugs....andnot having a great life.

Aw common...the all time WORST twi song was *father abraham* preformed with ALL the accompanying movements (shudder) by a room FULL of adults at an open state meeting...I was mortified ...but of course immediatly renewed my mind and participated....attempting to become spiritual enough to understand the deeper truths of this song...

Well that would sound nicer if twi had taught it that way oldies...but I am telling you ...twi did NOT teach the women who were pregnant that at any point the fetus was alive...NOT untill it took it`s first breath...everything hinged on first breath concept.....their whole belief system and justification for casual destruction of the unborn child was based on this concept......this was the teaching that everyone when the subject has come up that I have talked to after leaving was taught as well....I knew a girl while in....who aborted in the 6 month...it was STILL considered ok...cause it wasn`t alive yet.....shoot even my spouse and I accepted this as truth for many years after leaving as well....I found it a way convenient way to minimalise and forget what one has done. Has anybody else ever heard the *life after the first tri* teaching? Mj, my perception of your ideology reminds me of an Uncle I have...he does about anything he pleases......doesn`t apologise...just brightly anounces evey fifteen miniutes to anyone who will listen...*Thats ok....cause God forgives me n so do I* he annoys the fire outta everyone because he never takes any responsibility for his actions or shows any remorse for those he`s hurt....it appears to be an excuse to imbibe in any behavior he wishes.....he is a righteous feeling but very lonely man...but that`s ok because *HE forgives him*. If thats the direction this *professional mental health* will take me... as you keep intimating some here (me) needs to seek...I`d have to say no thanks...

quote...*the most difficult thing I believe is, that you can`t undo what was done*......absolutely excathedra.

LOL ...yeah Life always gets better after leaving twi...so what? You think that changes the evil wrought...or dims the memory of the anguish endured? or lessens the anger leveled at the people who dared demand what was NOT theirs...in God`s name?

I say again mj....it does not matter how I feel about abortion...evil not evil fetus alive or dead....it has NO BEARING HERE!!!! Gawd...the EVIL lies in the fact that though I was willing to take responsibility for that child .... was told that it was contrary to God`s will. The evil ...once again ...lies in the fact that they insisted that God required this....not corpes rules...not wow field rules...not twi rules required....but GOD Do you think God was standing by...applauding my decision?....proud of my display of commitment? s`funny but I feel like he might have been right there crying with me, as I in devastation... preformed as required.

Actually mj...you are right this thread ISN`T about me....but about EVERY believer who was forced into an untenable situation by twi leadership in their demand for obediance in God`s name. What I had to do in service to God pales compared to many...I know.... it is a bitter bitter pill to swallow when you realise that these choices agonizingly enacted... never were God`s will in the first place..

Thanks anyway mj...but I am not uptight...NOR have I ever tried to make this thread about me...that was yours and oldies doing...I have simply attempted to relate what twi taught me about fetal life and abortion...It appears the only defense I really need is against you and oldies` assault on my integrety and character.

It was just plain evil for twi leaders to represent abortion as God`s requirement. For those who accuse me of weanie ing out of my accountability....I accepted my the responsibility of *screwing up*...big time...I knew that pregnancy onthe wow field was unacceptable... I left didn`t even ask if I could stay...I knew that my sin was beyond fixing......I wrote my letter excusing myself from service in the corpes...as I knew that I was no longer worthey or qualified to continue...there was no doubt in my mind that I had sinned was spiritual slime...and would suffer the consequences...but I was prepared...with head up and shoulders back to take it on the chin...cause I knew that it was I and nobody else who had *blown* it I was deeply shamed ...btw up to this point it was very foreign behavior for me in 8 yrs of twi involvement...but accepted my shame....the consequences of my actions... I left with the intentions of marrying the father.... That was not acceptable however....I was brought back and *educated* as to my responsibilities...I must not break my vow to God....period for any reason...to do so would be to suffer grave consequences... I don`t understand what my lack of morality ...my obviously debilitated mental state...or current religious belief has anything to do with the egregious act of twi leaders in declaring that God demanded I abort this child....and had it been just me...I might have considered it just one incident of bad councel....however I have found through the years...that it was the standard teaching in these situations.... And don`t kid yourselves....it happened to the married couples in the corpes as well....and then sometimes, not only did wife have leadership pressure but her husband as well ... insisting that she comply....lest both their spiritual lives be ruines..... I do not understand why you mj and oldies are hasseling me over what they taught.... Nothing that you guys have brought up in your attempt to cast aspersions on my veracity...my obvious mental deficiancies or my poor personal morals (incidentallY instilled BY twi) at the time.....I don`t see how that in ANY way negates or changes the vileness of these guys posing as christian leaders demanding these things and others in God`s name..... I see true courage mj and oldies...as when you finally look at the sin in your life...and acknowledge it in all its hideousness....rather than pretending it was all ok because My or their *hearts* were in the right place...its THEN that you begin to accept responsibility for the harm caused.......to understand your accountability...and humbly ask for forgiveness....all the while knowing that though forgiven....you can never truly *fix* the harm that you have done...but become adamant in your resolve to try to become as giving/good a person as is possible...to try to make the world in some measure a little better place maybe attempting to give back what you in your foolishness have taken away....

I guess that I don`t feel like I am speaking from my experience alone......I am speaking up for the other friends whom I have met through the years since leaving who were *counceled* into aborting their children as well ....we have cried over our shame together....for the most part ... most of us have kept our dirty little *secrets* hidden ...most feel deeply betrayed that the abortion was presented as a Godly positive alternative...and to refuse was not to be entertained..... It is not just me who feels the betrayal by leaders supposed christian ...those we trusted to have our best interests at heart...those whom insisted that this was God`s will...its not just the feeling of betrayal of our trust concerning the state of our unborn children...but so many many instances folks were bullied into doing that which they wouldn`t have ordinarily done had not the name of God and the authority of twisted scriptures been applied as a weapon to enforce the desired behavior. Tom...it is the same thing...the helpless frustration of what you KNOW that you would rather do...what you would do in ANY other circumstance and the pressure of what they said God needed us to do....it was always between what we wanted and what God required....and to chose anything other than what leaders suggested was considered to be an extended big ole finger in God`s direction..spiritually. That is how I see it House is rocking ...and further .. I think that untill we recognise those *foxes* (I see em as wolves) as such...we can still be unduly influenced by their unhealthy ideology. Evan...ain`t it a kick in the pants? Zix...thanks.

Why mj .... I guess I haven`t felt that much *love* since leaving twi...thanks :-)

Mj...you make no sense to me..I am sorry.. I do not understand your continued badgering...but I would like you to stop.

Maybe I should have explained it nicer oldies...you are right...I guess this topic makes me angry....and it must have looked as if I was directing that anger at you....please allow me to explain what I meant by pap...ok? Twi had two different teachings on many given subjects ...ones that everybody heard the newer believers...the babes if you will who could only handle the *milk* of the word...then there was the ones reserved for those who were able to digest *meat* things only the spiritually *mature* could handle...... there were ever deeper levels of spiritual *truths* the longer you were in and the more commited you became... There were always more *in depth* teachings for the *spiritually mature*... only shared with those who could *handle it* thats how they said it...and so of course you wanted to be deemed *mature* wanted to be percieved as spiritual...so many of us would keep our mouths shut when questionable doctrine arose...less folks think we were still spiritual *babes*..and unable to *handle* it and we would feel oh so important that we were deemed *mature* enough to be taught these higher *truths* When I called your sharing *pap*...I am sorry I didn`t intend to demean you or your post...twi`s double standard ....es me off...not you or what you shared...I meant thats what twi taught the main stream believers in twi...there were so many teachings like about lock box...about sex ...about abortions ...that were never taught as mainstream big top roa teachings...I don`t know if this makes it any clearer why some have been taught one set of standards and others another. Your inapropraite behavior is when you called me a liar..when you said that I had exagerated made exagerrated claims before..THAT is a personal attack...period... You may lable it opinion all you want...but I have not lied...and I resent your implication that I have...especially when others have backed my account of twi`s teachings.

I do not understand very much of what you said mj....it was you who stated that you didn`t want to talk to me any more...I just ask you to consider doing so....a far cry from m&a. as you make very little sense to me ... I find it difficult to respond to your posts. I ask you to leave me alone please.....I am tired of being badgered.

Geeze the list is a long one...was the question what we gave up? or was it what was taken? Aside from my obvious loss on the other thread....ummm my wonderfull sci fi vintage book collection.... my ball glove that my grandma gave me when I was a kid...my my raggedy anne doll that my now dead gramma made by hand for me (long story)... my two horses...my two dogs....the many birds...hamsters...fish that I rescued from the pet store euthanasia....time with family at weddings and funerals for 15 years....time with my family period....my dignity...my self respect...I am sure I will think of more.

mj...I repeat ..I do not know these people in these forums...though I admire and respect them tremendously...even you at times...nor do I merrit some kind or preferencial treatment.. I wasn`t IN error...you mischaracterised what I said... Almost every post you have made on this thread has mischaracterised me or something I have written or have out and out called me a liar by saying that I was not told this.... Why not just follow your earlier declaration and just cease to converse with me on this thread ok? I am tired of having to defend myself against you.

When have I EVER invoked a *friend* system???...where did THAT come from??? I have only met ONE of the posters that rallied to my defense in person....(though I honestly thank all of you who did stand up for me..it was apreciated) nor do I believe that I have indulged in hystrionics at any point....I have simply tried to relate what twi taught me about abortions and fetal life...........I never asked nor whined to ANYONE for support...why are you doing this?? Could it be the reason you are seeing people speak up on my behalf ...rather than some kind of *cult conspiracy* is simply because you and oldies are percieved to be behaving inapropriatly? I don`t understand you at all mj ...no malice...no anger...I just don`t understand your attempts to discredit my contribution to the thread.

What I believed then and what I believe now really has NO bearing on the destructive actions of twi leaders who demanded destruction of an unborn child simply to appease God....sometimes twi stikes me as barbaric as the aztec and inca communities sacraficing babies and children to keep their Gods happy..... This was not what the corpes was portrayed to be about mj...sorry. I fail to see why my experience, veracity, and sanity are being questioned over what twi taught and demanded of its adherents....there are other posters on this thread that have verified that they were taught the same thing.

Nope ... I was found and *invited* to spend some time with the lc`s closing some matters...which I did..when it was pointed out that if I had the child I would be a vow breaker...a liar that God would be mad....annanias and saphira were brought up a lot...that if I disobeyed leaderships` recomendation that I would become stiff necked...several biblical accounte of how God delt with stiff necked people...How God expected me to keep my promise....along with all of the other reasons it was not a life there for ok...(it took a whole weekend at the lc`s house) I came to my senses and was driven to the abortion clinic a week later by the bc...I ran away the first time....but then was brought back to the lc`s for a little more *instruction* .....though I did not want to ....my fear of dissapointing God was greater than my desire to protect the child. So anyway...2nd time I came to my senses...bucked up...grew some back bone...I had my bc`s there for *support*...I quelled the panic and shame with sit and running scriptures through my mind so that I wouldn`t think about what was happening or how horribly wrong I felt and panic and flee Like I said...NOW I was spiritually worthey...I was welcomed back onto the wow field...completed my app year in the corpes...was considered quite the little duolos...yep!@ My leaders were proud...dignity was restored...I am sure that God was impressed with my level of commitment.....satans plot to prevent me from a life time of service to God and the way ministry was foiled....what was the destruction of a *parasite* compaired to all of that???