rascal

Tell ya...dead horses is naaasty. Beating them produces nastier consequences......lol sorry Zix...I had a hose die last month ...your topic brought back some vivid mind pics...I agree ...beating is useless...bury em is the only solution......otherwise you have to deal with flies n stench...bloating...eeww oooh we weren`t being litteral? Sorry;-)

Me neither Krys...I think a lot of people honestly bought into vp`s speil...maybe even his brothers...maybe he even believed it himself.....doesn`t change the fact either way that we were scammed out of a lot.

Well let`s see...what we were offered a class that would teach us *where to find the answeres to all of lifes questions* What the COST that they never told us about...ended up being decades of life wasted in our soul focus and service to said group....outragious abuses to be endured......tens of thousands of dollars ... family...friends...sanity.... Yup sounds like a *scam* to me :-) What has that inocuous little class cost you?

Oh yeah grizz...this young person stands to be sucked into a cult that will alienate him from their family....detour them from their goals...suck up inordinate amounts of time and money ...and then spit them out when every particle of usefullness has been sucked out of em...and you think that maybe we are reacting a little strongly??? Gawd Think about it....would you want YOUR kid sucked into what is ahead for nameless young person if they become involved??? There is a whole HELL of a lot of difference between what would be required if one dated from the groups that you mentioned. Damn Grizz..I think that this person deserves the strongest warning that it is within our power to administer ... I suppose one who has experienced the final stages of cancer caused by cigaret smoking might be intense in their warnings in to attempt to dissuade young folks from starting as well....yeah maybe that particular kid wont get cancer and suffer ....but who wants to take that chance?

Nameless...think about what you are saying...Do you think that we were all weak or stupid? Of COURSE they don`t appear dangerous...they can`t say *welcome...come and join our cult...devote the rest of your life...finances ...freedome of choice and will to our worthey cause* I would have vehemently denied these allegations while involved...because I believed what I suffered .. what I gave up ... what I endured was for God and the chance to grow spiritaully.... Wayfer parents usually control EVERY aspect of their childrens lives...even after 18 and going to college... If this person dates you....eventually they will have to chose between you and twi...between you and every member of their family and every friend they have .... The policy is called *mark and avoid* if the way person doesn`t do as their parents/leaders direct....and yes...non wafer spouses are right at the top of the no no list. If this wafer choses you....they lose everything that has meaning in their life...they will be outside of the protection of the household of God...open to attack and death.... Do you think that this wafer cares enough for you to risk all of this? Why do you think this is called *Grease spot cafe*? It`s because the former leader...(who was tossed out for sexual misconduct)...declared that if we EVER dared turn our back on the ministry that taught us God`s word...we`d be a *grease spot by midnight*...you know...the greasy spot on the road thats left AFTER the dead body has been removed? Nice...eh? I don`t know if you are a guy or a girl .... but trust me ...you don`t want to be a woman in twi....we are not treated well...but hey, we suck it up and take it on the chin cause thats how God designed it don`t ya know?

I don`t know Mr. Moonlight...I can only say that after leaving twi, I haven`t heard it practiced much.....n to tell you the truth, I really haven`t missed it at all. I faithfully participated and preformed when called on for nearly 15 years....I always knew that I should be excited and feel reverential, like I was hearing from God...but in truth, it seemed repetative and dull...I was embarrassed that inside ...I didn`t *feel* more excited....I am sorry...I just have not felt like I have lost anything by not participating in manifestations....

Absolutely(((JT))) there is nothing to forgive....No way that you could have known...lol, being as my handle is gender neutral, I didn`t think a thing about it.... Thanks for the clarification Steve :-)

If you tell your friend that you have been reading on the internet....they will probably tell you that it is all lies....that we who have left are evil, disgruntled ex members with an ax to grind.... What you need to ask yourself or your friend...is why the organisation whom once boasted of 100,000 believers in 62 countries with several campuses..numerous training centers...has dropped in membership to a paltry less than 5000? Why would tens of thousands of faithfull members end their involvement after dedicating DECADES of their lives to it`s support and movement? Questions that make you go hmmmmm.....

Nameles...........first off, welcome to gspot....I am SO glad that you are asking questions....it may save you the future DECADES of grief that most twi folks endure. Let me be blunt ...may I? No self respecting wafer would consider serious entanglement with a *non* believer...Trust me...they have had *be not unequally yoked* pounded into their thick heads. You are nothing more than a *mark*...a potential recruit for their organisation....watch it unfold and remember my words... 1st off...they will say...oh honey...I just COULDN`T get serious about anyone who didn`t go to fellowship and learn how to believe right... 2nd ...they would say...you can`t fully understand the things of God unless you take this class... 3rd ...though you have taken the class you are not spiritually *mature* enough for me untill you have completed the beginning intermediate and advanced classes...gone way desciple...way corpes..whatever. To be brutal candid....if not interested in twi,,,you will never be more than a *plaything*...never worthey of tru respect or equality... How do you feel about giving 15 percent of your income? If you marry....consulting with leadership over every single solitary detail of your life right down to when you intend to have sex together ... how bout asking permission to go out of town? How do you feel about face melting vein popping spittle flying screaming in your face for an hour or two if you inadvertantly displease your leadership? Sound appealing??? Then I`ll add my voice to those and scream RUUUUUUUUUN fast as you can and never look back.

The more I think about it, the more apropriate my analogy strikes me....My friend...every month NYL sends out *bonuses* ...get so many knew policies...get 500 bucks extra....get so many the next month and it will be 900 bucks...etc...miss a month and you are back at fround zero....so she is constantly under pressure to bring in fresh *meat*.... Reminds me of the tc and leaders meetings...pressure to have a class...how many students your twig needed to have in the class...by what date...the pressure was enormous...and I was *motivated* to be all that much more *intense* in my efforts to have our requisit number....sure I pushed...I leaned on the rest of my twig members....I worked tirelessly...did what ever was needed (never dishonest) to inspire these people into this class that they really needed anyway....I did not see myself as doing anything wrong....the people that I trusted said that this was what God needed and that it was what I needed to do to please him and to grow....but the result was the same...though these people bought a product from me...on my say so...infected by my intensity and enthusiasm...after trial and examination...most realised that it was not what they originally believed that they were buying.....many held on not wanting to believe that they had thrown away so much....(that is where I am at with my life insurance) ...many were convinced if they held on long enough and worked hard enough...that it would BECOME what they originally thought that they bought....and some just cut their losses and left.

That is a good point Dott, I am not trying to be argumentative ...I am simply trying to understand ... I don`t ever want to wake up on the wrong side of the fence again...

That is what I would like to think also dot, I really would...but was I really bringing them to *christ* if it was their introduction to into hell? How clever is that? Use God`s name and scriptures to ensare victims for satan. Was I really so harmless in my service to God, when I was procuring people and their resources for consumption by wolves in sheeps clothing? Or was I serving Satan...and agent of darkness...although unbeknownst to me...People throughout history have done horrible horrible things in the name of God and in his service....but who has really been served....I am sure that the people murdering in allah`s name today have hearts and motives every bit as pure as mine...does that excuse them or make them basically *good* though misdirected?

It makes sense...Dott, I see what you are saying...I think that you are absolutely right....but I still feel dirty...I am trying to understand culpability... It`s like this friend I know...she sells insurance...insurance nobody can really afford...everybody kicks themselves for signing up for.....most cancel after a year...but hey it doesn`t matter cause they got your money.....and they will just sucker somebody new....but because she is charasmatic...she sells herself...People buy into her contagious enthusiasm...her *catch* phrases...She can make it seem like the most logical thing in the world....it so reminds me of getting sucked in to pfal... People wouldn`t contact this company and say...hey let me give you a hundred bucks a month to hold for me in case I die....and if I do this every month for 15 years....I can get it back someday........naw you are invited to lunch or dinner with this friend n before you know it....you have walked away with a policy you don`t need and cant afford....n she`s so good... a year later she invites you to lunch...have you learned? oh hell no....I`d be delighted to get away for lunch....n you walk away with insurance policies on your damn kids.... I think she is completely sold out...totally believes what she does...but me? I bought a whole lot of crap I didn`t want and don`t need. But hey...she`s innocent right? Because it`s new york life that is behind her...they are the ones pocketing all the money....so she`s really just prostituting for the insurance co. Does this make ANY sense in regards to how I feel about my participation and the folks who were so nice to me? I feel like a whore....

Thats it Tom...a lot of good WAS done ...in SPITE of vp...The thing that attracted us was the GOOD people that ministered to us....now I wonder ...was it really good??.... I am sorry ...I guess that I am dealing with being mad ...that we...as the *good* people...we were in reality what sucked people in to their destruction...If people hadn`t seen us...our wholesome christian enthusiasm and decency....would people have been lured in to be to have so much stolen from them.... Our *walks* are what decieved people ...our innocent joy was what caused people to lower their defenses consequently making them vulnerable to be preyed upon by vp and his chosen ones.... Our heartfelt prayers...our selfless giving...our contagious youthfull enthusiasm...is what blinded people to the darkness that was looming. Our honesty and integrety is what convinced them that this group was wholesome....and worth it enough to give up their lives...goals family ...sanity.... I feel like I was a PIMP for satan...procuring victims for his consumption....no matter how pure my motives were....I thought that I was serving God....but who REALLY benefited??? Us??? those we lured in??? GOD??? Seems to me the ones who benefited truly were Men serving satan...as Dott said...had these guys come at us with vpw and twi`s real doctrine ....nobody would have ever bought it...they`d have run fast.... Had evil not had us to hide behind...it would have never succeded....We were like some kind of camoflage for some of the sickest nastiest bastards that ever walked the planet.... Seems like we were a functioning part of something that was horrendously destructive....was God REALLY behind us getting involved ...was there REALLY any *spiritual* benefit or are we simply grasping at straws in order to not recognise our own culpability in the destruction....I just don`t know... I have a hard time believeing that God had anything to do with it....n then I get ....ed and wonder why he didn`t/doesn`t care enough to steer us clear....you KNOW there had to be some group somewhere that could have met our needs....It just seems like one more kick in the bu tt from lifetime of crushing blows...one more time of being *screwed* ...and I wonder why.

ROFLMAO!!! witnessing!!! OMG...Dott THAT is hysterical........

Not to worry Refiner...I will stand beside you, they will have to *lick* us together ...lol as I feel like you have stated a very real possibilty. Vp could have very well been one of those *wolves in sheeps clothing* that the bible warnes us about....it makes the most sense. P.s. Just in case...I loan you a pair of my best asbestos undies :-)

Dunno water buffelo....my sister never became involved with the way...and yet she managed to become a creditable christian.... and yes, she did it through a church, and her depth of understanding, her spiritual perception ...her scriptural knowldege is every bit as developed as any of ours.......n she didn`t have to put up with nearly the crap we did....I know a whole lot of wonderfull spiritual men and women who didn`t need twi to become that way.......probably just about the same proportions of spiritually aware .. sweet people as bullies that I saw in twi... I no longer think it is right to dismiss churches or other groups or denegrate their importance. I think many churches were doing their jobs....we just weren`t fortunate enough to run into them. My only thought is this.......that if there really IS a God...and he really DID lead us into twi...maybe there was something necessary we needed to learn...I mean after all..I can spot a spiritual con or hypocracy a mile away now...I am also very strong now having survived merceless bullying for so long... Or maybe we were all just young naieve dumb as-es who had no guidance and fell prey to the first con that came along ...and God had nothing to do with it ...

Feed em n F--- em ... nice right? God forbid *I* should need anything in addition... adherence to this excellent advice probably explains the size of my fanny and number of my progeny ... sigh It sure wasn`t very much help ....

Ok.... my Dad in his wedding vows last year...made a solemn oath to his bride...that EACH day.... that he would do everything within his power to ensure that this day would be even BETTER than the one they enjoyed the day before...lol It seems to be working for them as they are still deleriously happy together. Far cry from the *instruction* I recievd in twi ...I once was told that all I needed to know for a *successfull* marriage, was to employ the two *f*s ....simply, this was all that was required of me to make it a happy marriage....

Ain`t THAT a kick in the bu tt wayward wayfer??? Here you are...talking to God...askin real polite for something n then nosey self rightious butt head has gotta interfere and slam you for it....makes you wish God`d a stuck this giant finger in the face of the screamer ...pinned em against the wall and snarled *mind yer own damn business...this is between me n her* ...

Lol Mary Cate... WHOOPIE!!! Welcome welcome...let me be the first to congratulate you on your entry into the world of those whom wear *sensible* undergarments tee hee...n you didn`t even have to sign a green card.... oh gawd..I guess this makes me some sort of apostle or prophet eh??.... when I wanted to make an impact in the world ...I am not sure this is QUITE what I had in mind....maybe I have finally found my niche... Geeze ... I hope that they are what you like....now I will really feel guilty if they are not your cup of tea.....oh well...they are always great to sleep in with a t shirt if they don`t suit you otherwise.

In thinking about this thread.......I believe that way gb will probably make copies of this thread and mail it to every fellowship left to prove their point...I can hear it now...see SEEEE??? leave the protection of God`s house hold n the women `ll start wearing Booooooooooooxersssss if THIS isn`t an example of the manifestation of posession by a homosexual spirit...I don`t know WHAT is....(related in my best vein popping spittle flying scream)

oops... security guard UNIFORM...sorry ex....rofl..I got in a hurry when husband came in the room and I DIDN`T want to have to explain this thread.....rofl Hills...I thought I WAS offering a solution to all of those poor gals...wear BOXERS!

omg this is SO funny, I cannot BELIEVE that I am going into details....guffaw! Dear vickles, that has not been a problem for me...I wear them under my guard occasional bunching isn`t nearly as uncomfortable as the circulation being cut off by the tighter legs of the womens garments.... Busting a gut here....I KNOW that this is tmi now ... How hysterical imbus....I`ll bet you spoiled his whole week.

snort...ex, ya THINK? lol