rascal

This is part of a letter that I wrote to my Brother in Afgahnistan this morning. We were talking about spiritual betrayal and the impact. I am amazed that you get it. Usually it takes having lived through it to understand. I do remember vividly giving God the finger and yelling FU, everything I have ever been taught about you is a lie... I spend a lot of time on an ex cult web site working through how it could all happen. How people could be so thoroughly deceived and manipulated. You feel so foolish, so betrayed. Your right, the invariable conclusion for many is that there can`t be a God if such abuse is allowed to happen in his name. What is horrible is that vulnerable people who are desperatly seeking God, when they get burned by the people who represent God...what is left? People have abused you God has abused you...there is no place left to turn. There were a lot of suicides, and now I know why. We were introduced to a ministry who promised to teach everything pertaining to life and Godliness, promised peace, healing...etc..we dare to to hope that the answeres to our pain are at hand...that the guidance that we have so needed, the family that the neglected needed more than air......to one day find out that we were simply duped into supporting very evil men whom inflicted great evil.....is shattering. Course us peons that were supporting and enabeling this group never knew that we weren`t a legitimate Christian organization. To find out after a decade or two that everything that you have dedicated your life and energy to is one huge lie and betrayal??? My God how embarassing. Ones ego doesn`t want to admit that they were wrong, that they weren`t a part of God`s spiritual elite bringing his word to the world. So you have to quantify everything so that you don`t look so bad, tell yourself the stories aren`t true, that the people who were abused some how deserved it...because goodness sakes, we can`t have been that wrong about people whom we loved and respected. When it all comes crashing down around your ears...when you realise how tragically wrong you all were, that people suffered and even died ... that everything you thought you believed is a lie...your belief system has crumbled, the way you view yourself, your understanding of the universe no longer valid....whew. You have been so utterly betrayed that you will never ever trust another person to teach you. The rules change, most marriages never survived. Anyway, I wish that I had spent my life doing some legitimate good in the world. Of all of the things that I grieve losing the most, is the lost opportunities, the lost youth. All that I can do is try to be the best person that I can be, doing my best to ease anyones elses burdens, trying to be a force for good during my remaining time on this planet. Sorry for the wierdness this morning Little Brother, You provoke some deep thoughts. Love to you, Your ohsowierdbutnowmaybealittlemoreunderstandiblenuttysister

Manipulation, intimidation, lies about what God could would should do if someone opened their mouths. My thoughts are that it is the same reason that we allowed ourselves to be used, mistreated, stood by silently while others were abused, didn`t report crimes, sent our money in when we were eating mac and cheeses and ramen noodles.... I think that we were decieved, manipulated, our trust betrayed...in other words...brain washed. It is the only explanation that I can come up with for why otherwise reasonable people allowed such an egregious breach of our constitutional rights :(

I think that many times, our knowledge aquired in twi has developed an arrogance that may prevent us from ever being humble enough to recieve the things of God and function as genuine Christians.

God knows how many heads he has no matter what we think of how we see him, he is what he is. What he DID ask us to do was to love him and love our neighbors. Can`t say as I have seen that from the scripture masters....shrug In twi knowledge was seen as spirituality. It is obvious from the way they treated people and the fruit that was manifested, that biblical accuracy and scriptural study didn`t prevent them from being very very evil...their lives manifesting the fruit that declares them of the flesh and having no inheritance in The kingdom of God. On the other hand, I have seen people in the churches, whether they pray to God, to Jesus, or even Mary that understand and live *Love God and love your neighbor. They manage to manifest the fruit that Jesus would identify them as a brother or sister. Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits. Not by the belief they profess, the way that they worship, or the amount of knowledge that they amassed.

Well said Geisha, it has been a chilling thought to me. How many of us ex twi are going to one day be told to *depart for I knew you not*? In spite of having prophesied in his name and cast out demons....sigh Our knowledge doesn`t mean squat.

Apparently what they think that they know isn`t enough. Knowledge puffeth up Dude, That is why so many ex way are so arrogant that they will never actually know the truth. What they know is invariably used as an excuse to dismiss themselves from their spiritual responsibilities and the glaring lack of fruit from one who is supposedly of the spirit.

Mo, the reindeer sausage was FABULOUS!! Thanks Gal :)

He can`t dance ...heh heh heh ;)

Rascal posting from Mr.St Georges computer!! He and THE countess are hosts extraordinare!!! The food is fabulous, the company hillarious. I have been exhorted to ask Don about swatratra`s diaphragm. (Dont blame Rascal for this one DWBH, it was all Eyesopen and Dooj!) Rumor has it that Don didnt come 'cause he couldnt hang with the 'big boys'. (Posted by Eyes who hijacked the puter when Rascal ran for another drink!)

We`re HERE!!!! :)

I can`t say what our plans are yet. I just know that we depart early friday.

WG, I was giving the official version. Just like any predator, child molester, etc...they have *secrets* with their victims. They make them feel special, so that the dirty little secret is kept from public view, from the people or athorities that would recognize the exploitation. When feeling special doesn`t work, then manipulation and intimidation is used to ensure continued silence. It takes years and years sometimes to come to recognize the betrayal.

Nicely said Kimberly :) Hmm Freedombound, you don`t want to hear about problems with the *product* and you don`t want to hear about peoples pain, and you don`t want to hear about anger over abuse and cruel treatment. Excuse me for asking, but just what is it that you feel that you really have to offer anyone? It seems like you want to offer knowledge, but isn`t that the same knowledge that puffed people up and allowed evil to run rampant and unchecked, destroying lives in the first place? Please consider that if you haven`t the patience to deal with your brothers pain, the kindness to treat your suffering brothers with the courtesy and respect, the compassion to at least hear and acknowledge their suffering, the longsuffering to allow them to vent the frustration and anger over the utter and complete betrayal suffered, the meekness to consider that we may not actually have all of the answeres to life and Godliness (ie know it all)....sigh that rather than valliantly holding forth the word, one might in truth actually just be tinkling a cymble, you know?

Addressing why most folks didn`t hear about the teachings that allowed the treatment such as Kristin recieved. Of COURSE one wouldn`t have heard of any *official* teaching. That took careful chosing of whom they wished to victimize. It took careful grooming to prepare their intended target. They used terms like spiritualy mature enough to handle their freedoms in Christ, all things being lawful to them which are in Christ, all parts of the body being equal, all the women in the kingdom belonging to the king and the mogs were our modern version of kings....eating meat or not was ok as long as you weren`t a stumbling block to your brother. There were deeper meanings that the general believers weren`t mature enough to handle, so ut was all kept lock box so that you didn`t cause your brother to stumble. It was planned, and it was sick, and it was all about using the scriptures and God`s name to facillitate the sating of their depraved lusts and filling their bellies. These guys were scum.

Dunno Cid, seems like your criteria for *kangaroo court* rests on whether or not those accused held pov`s that you agree with. Labeling the folks talking about the evils committed by these characters as holding court, or equating them with entirely different scenarios of people being falsley accused seems to me to be a defensive mechanism of folks that don`t really want to have to examine their belief systen, their doctrinal understanding and their perceptions as one must if they realize that the men whom taught them were evil deceptive bastards that despitefully used innocent young christians. Far nicer to pretend that it was no big deal...that the people making the accusations are liars. Trust me, there isn`t many of us who don`t wish with all of our hearts that the men and women of twi had been *of the spirit* genuine christians with the genuine love of God, rather than finding ourselves being used to fill the bellies and sate the lusts of very evil people. Damned right I wish that twi had been what it claimed to be. Damned right I wish that the doctrinal teachings had been truthful :( There wouldn`t be a need for a place like this.

*just get over it* = live in denial like ME!! :) I understand why twi leaders want us to *just get over it* who the heck wants to be held accountable for the evil that they do? I understand why they want folks to *just get over it* shoot, if folks talk about what a leader did it calls their credibility and the validity of their doctrine and belief system into question. I understand why people would want other people to *just get over it* because when the horrors of experienceing being drugged and raped by vpw, or being forced into sexual servitude by lcm, or had their lives and reputations savaged and destroyed byleaders like John Lynn and the like just because they were having a bad day...was it Johm or LCM in charge of the corpes that threw Rochelle out to die after she sustained horrendous injuries as a result of ineptitude at lead?? Shrug, it really calls into question the validity of our entire belief system. Much easier to *get over it* pretend that it was no big deal...that way one doesn`t need to address the ominous implications of a person or ministry that could commit such evil atrocities in God`s name. :( I hope that there is an accounting to God one day for the harm that they did in his name. As far as I am concerned ...*to get over it* means to forget those who suffered and died at the hands of twi leaders...

That is a valid point.

Well, I guess I`d want to pm that poster and tell them how their actions had impacted my life. They then would have the oportunity to recognise and apologise for what they had done or not. I would then have the oportunity to forgive or not. If I were the one who had wronged someone, I would want the chance to apologise.

I believe that CES is still in crisis whether participants recognise it after sweeping away and hiding the evidence or fruit if you will, of their organization or not. To me, it seems like they will continue to be in spiritual crisis untill they abandon the foundation or root of a tree that persistantly bears bad fruit. no, like twi, it may not be evident on the surface now, but they are still operating from the same basic understanding that has yeilded trouble for decades. It is sad to keep cultivating the same tree year after year, pruining, nurturing, fertilizing, spraying for insects only to find at the harvest time that it bears the same putrid fruit as it did the year before.

The thing is....having met real Christians since leaving twi, having seen how genuine men and women of the spirit comport themselves and treat one another, LCM, VPW many of the leaders in comparrison were nothing more than arrogant and puffed up men of the flesh who`s knowledge of the scripture has been mistaken for spirituality, and who used the scriptures to justify and excuse any indulgance. These guys are just posers. It is sad because someday they are going to find out the hard way how tragically wrong they were. What is sadder is how many people they have led down this same path.

So we talk about the vile actions, the crimes committed against us by this man and others and you see it as holding a grudge? Maybe you ought to be asking why it bothers you for us to talk about what this man did. Beat him with a club?? He is going to get worse than a mill stone hanged around his neck if what Jesus said has any credence. Jesus talked about the evil of the pharacees, the evil leaders in his day that commtitted crimes in God`s name. Dunno, he never preached to forgive them. This man is a villain, but because he perpetrated his crimes under the banner of God...he gets a free pass? Nope cid, I don`t think so. He is still taking that which isn`t his, still masquerading as a Man of the spirit, still seperating people from the love of God. As far as John McCain? The little bastards that tortured him didn`t claim to be doing it in the name of God did they?

I think that you ought to have to have endured some of the horrors personally at his hands that others here have before you decide what is apropriate and when for another. In addition to his actions being moraly and spiritually bankrupt, in some cases, they were criminal as well. But go ahead, feel free to forgive him for the evil that he committed to others in the name of God. I know that if he ever repents and asks, that God will probably forgive him. Maybe if he repents and asks those he has grievously wronged, seeks to apologize and make restitution as the God in the scriptures says is required, maybe some of us will consider forgiving him then as well. But UNTILL then he has not met the criteria required for forgivness to be granted. I would think anyone would be wise to familiarize themselves with the spiritual darkness and putridity of his walk of the flesh before granting the man, his writings or his organization any credibility or credence.

First off, I don`t know if he is in the normal world yet. Is he still living in housing subsidized by twi? Is he still recieving money from them? That won`t help him back into the real world. And secondly, I think that He wanted to be right so bad, I don`t think that his ego will allow him to consider that he was wrong. Having all of the answers, being right is an arrogance thing. If you think you know it all, one normally doesn`t see the need for the self examination necessary to acknowledge error and impliment change.

Tzaia, Did you promote twi in any way? Did you invite folks to fellowship? Did you send money? Did you volunteer your time for an event? See what I am saying is that we all partook because without our homes to hold fellowship and classes in, without our witnessing and introducing people, without our enthusiastic endorsement, twi would never have survived. If VPW had jumped out and said *BOO! I am a serial sexual abuser, I will require sexual service from your wives and daughters. If I cannot manipulate them into providing what I require, My bus driver will serve them a drink that will ensure their compliance. Any whom have a problem with this will be declared possessed and removed from the presence of any whom might listen to their accounts. Their reputations to be destroyed, their lives ripped to shreds. Children will be deemed a nuisance and disposable when they become inconvenient. You will be required to donate 15 percent of your income for the rest of your life. You will be required to participate in any and alll programs. You will submit to any leaders demands, any invasion of your privacy, ranging from finances to your sex life. You will be required to forsake your natural man familes. And FINALLY, when every last ounce of usefulness has been squeezed from you, when you are broken or ailing, you will be tossed away like so much garbage :( If VP had been honest, twi would have never had access to tens of thousands of people. We were what enabled the evil to operate. It was our money that bought the food that they ate, our money that paid for the classes they produced, the houses and buildings that housed the leaders. It was our witnessing that brought people to the ministry. How many young people did we bring to fellowship that ended up abused or dead? TWI couldn`t have operated without us, it still operates today, poisoning, enslaving the unwarey on the nest egg that WE provided. I think to deny that we were in a cult simply because we didn`t participate in the more unseemly aspects is yet still another form of denial, an inability to honestly take responsibility for what we participated amd promoted. :(

Sorry Bramble, I probably should just refrain from posting first thing in the morning. I wasn`t thinking about you, or anybody in particular when I wrote, but rather how easy it is to excuse the ministry and ourselves, from a *cult* in order to feel better about ourselves and what we devoted our life to. Some are down right dishonest in the lengths that they will go to to try to justify/excuse/diminish the behaviors and damage that place twi squarely in the *abusive, dangerous, cult* catagory.