rascal

never mind

well...I know corpes grads that were told by leadership not to marry on the simple basis of one being black.....it looked bad and thus would hinder the movement of the word....sounds a tad racist to me.

I intend on bringing pots pans....cooking utensils. I intend on cooking massive amounts (with my crew I have to anyway) so intend that there be plenty of soup...spaghetti and biscuts n gravey. I can bring a couple of charcole grills.

Dear Billy D, Welcome, and thankyou for having the courtesy to read and respond to what we have written in a carefull and considered manner. That shows respect .... Thankyou for having the courtesy and taking the the time to clear up misconceptions. My husband enjoys the materials has recieved materials from ces....so I know that there are people who benfit from ces` efforts.

See the thing is....I don`t expect or demand anything more from John than what he is willing to give...really....I personally enjoyed and benefited from his teachings more than any other teacher in twi...seriously. I have no doubt that he has found his *nitch* that he is comfortable and probably is a tremendous blessing to those within his sphere of influince....could even truly be doing the work of God....who knows or is any position to judge? Certainly not me.... My initial observation was simply that IF you truly cared about an individual....if you are going to claim this.....then it behooves you to observe the basic tenets of courtesy and invest the time..the patience, have the respect to listen to what one has to say....to carefully consider what they have to say and then respond.... THAT is what you do when you honestly care...why come in here and pretend that you care....when you are unwilling to observe the basics of common courtesy? Whether John Lynn ever bothered to respond is of no consequence to me....that he arrogantly states that he has no intentions of reading or responding to our thoughts or concernes is a slap in the face....sorry, that is my perception.

Lol...an awarness sky4it? Some folks around here call that a finely tuned bull sh-tometer .... Thanks for your concern... Dart, as far as expressing my sentiments about John`s cavaliere attitude...I thought that was precisely what I was doing here....but seeing as they are simply unimportant enough to read or respond to....lol...I am not concerned with what his response would be to worthless lil ole me...WERE I to call him on his terms. Please stop turning my posts into a *rascal hates john* thread....my opinion is about a simple lack of respect PERIOD.

A) John Lynn HIMSELF said....that Dr.Wierwille would be very proud....not me...JOHN in the letter that Jeff posted..... B) Whether I am born again or not...or John Lynn is or not is of no present concern....we have either been taught right or not....we`ll either be there or not.......IF WE BOTH ARRIVE....shoot I am sure that the heavenlies will be big enough to suit the both of us....no problems there.... C) You read me quite wrong Dart, I am neither hurt...nor intending to be sarcastic....my points of import might strike you as such though...thus allowing you to negate their importance. D) HE dismissed US as unimportant when he stated that he had no intentions of reading or responding to out posts...THAT is the ultimate ....screw you ...you are not important enough for me to listen to, much less take the time to thoughtfully consider or respond to....no problem...like I said....but don`t tell me you love or want to help me... E) Nope John did NOT chose to meet me in my medium....he wrote ONE post ....telling US how he wouldn`t read or respond to what WE said....no problem...again...but don`t think you fool anybody ionto believeing that you give a damn... As far as showing YOU love Dart...I never came IN here claiming to *love* you nor representing myself as someone who gives a damn about you one way or another......However, ... when you WERE in chat, I`d like to remind you tha in SPITE of your misgivings..and much to your suprise....you were welcomed and treated well......as far as I know, I have never misrepresented or misquoted you....so either pony up with specifics or ...back off. Actually, I have nothing against John ....nope....just have no patience with pseudo love and pretended caring... Assuage...computer left off an s......it`s a real word, and apropriate....honest! *To allay..mitigate....lessen...appease...pacify*

Nope... I assume nothing Dartanion...John Lynn himself labeled those who participate on ex way sites as whiners.. complainers...perpetual victims etc....I suggest you aquaint yoursel with his opinion of usin his interview that was on probergs site. You see, if he catagorizes us as such...he can safely dismiss our value or his responsibility....it`s all in the mind games you play with yourself. I am glad that God does not dismiss us or consider us whines.. complainers and perpetual victims....on the contrary...I see great things happening for many....it is a darn shame that John perception does not allow him to see the valid good being accomplished.....and dismiss us as unworthey of his attention.....sure glad God doesn`t treat us that way.. Look around dart, this ISN`T quick sand....nor are we struggeling...lol it is simply a site full of good folks at various stages of their journey.....

Too bad it isn`t the dead of winter eh Kry?

Funny funny .... Maybe he can have a pizza delivered...is he planning on sneaking up and sticking a potato in their tail pipe while they are distracted? (sorry scenes from Beverly hills cop running through my brain) lol. Jim should have a lot of fun with these guys who take themselves and their spiritual *duty* WAY to seriously ...roflmao

Afraid of??? lol, I am *afraid* of nothing that you or John Lynn have to say....I am just uninterested in more bible schpeal from one who still desires the aproval of a proven evil man. I don`t trust that persons judgement or discernment abilities.... Listen carefully please....what I AM ...is disgusted by his pseudo love and pretended concern....PERIOD! NOT fear...disgust! If John seriously cared about me or anyone else....he wouldn`t categorise and dismiss us as whiners and complainers.... See...if he honestly cared, he would minister to people WHERE they were at .... IN a method that they could understand and accept...whether it was a medium he himself is comfortable with or not.....thats how the REAL love of God ....(AND Jesus I will add) operated. I have no problem with John Lynn and what he does....but don`t pretend you care when you are unwilling to bestir yourself to even converse with folks........don`t break your arm patting yourself on the back thinking that you have done anything for God or anyone else.......it`s the same old infomercial as we heard in twi....I can`t help you but I have the materials/class that can.....bah....that is the cowards way out....that is the pseudo love...and is greatly lacking in any true benefit....it simply looks and sounds good.....and you can asuage your guilty conscience.

How long? Ummm apparently just long enough to write one post ... that was all HE is willing to *be* with us ... If thats love..no thanks, you can KEEP it!

On second thought, I wouldn`t want anyone treated the way we were...no matter how deserving :-(

Oh geeze Shellon, that is awfull. You are the one who had to make repair for reporting a heinous crime ???? This predator gets caught molesting children....and YOU are the one punished??? How twisted is that? You know, it sure strikes me, how vp showed his outstanding spiritual discernment abilities when he apointed THIS bozo to be in charge of peoples lives.....can there be any DOUBT concerning the source of vps information?

snicker....snort...GUFFAW! so many fond memories of roa...out n about...lol AFTER you beg off of work...spend every penny you`ve got to arrive.... Huddling terrified in a tent as vivid lightening cracked down in ground shattering non stop roar....people running around in their underwear in the middle of the night in gail force windds attempting to put blown over tents back up (and failing).... Omg food poisoning.....lying helpless in the stifeling heat...without access to food or water because you are too weak to crawl the 1/2 mile to grounds and the food tents and wait in line.....wholely dependant on whether or not your twig buddies happen to remember to send out a yogurt or drink to you that day..... gaaaaaawd bless, It`s GOOD to be home!

Good for you Uncle Hairy, having the guts to stand up for what was right. How awfull that they trashed you and the others who did so....sheeshe, Hairy, they HAD to do that to anyone that had a decency or integrety....you folks were what was interfering with them being able to operate without impunity...being marked and avoided by a bunch that have proven to be so evil, is kind of a badge of honor. It just kills me that the resources that we slaved to provide, both with our physical efforts as well as our monetary support...all the sacrifices made.......the people that we brought in to do the same....is all there now being enjoyed by the ones who treated everyone so horribly.... There was a poster on wd once claiming that he was ha...he said they laughed their asses off all the way to the bank. As far as Donna M, when my husband wouldn`t accept an assignment .... even though I disagreed ...even though I was still as committed as ever....even though I was the same person that the believers had known and loved (some for over a decade) I was considered scum, and not allowed to do more than sit in a fellowship....wasn`t allowed to participate to hang out to got out for coffee....ALL BECAUSE OF MY HUSBANDS ACTIONS!!!! Talk about double standards....I sure don`t know how you folks in twi can justify it.... I agree....now that I enjoy genuine friendship and concern....I know and deeply apreciate the differance....

Please elaborate WTH....

Maybe I should get my *ducks in a row* on another thread rather than further derail your thoughts eh cool waters?

You know, when I found that picture at the flea market....it was so dirty that only the pretty ducks...were *visable* ...I loved it. When I got home and cleaned it up....started examining it a little more closely....it was then I saw the hunters hidden ....I was disgusted and saddened....here these pretty ducks...contentedly landing for some food n fellowship...are targeted to be blown away in about two seconds.... There they are oblivious to the impending destruction..... Now...when I look at this picture....I can STILL simply focus just on the pretty ducks the beautifull water ...all of the *nice* things...and completely block out the looming danger that is lurking in the bushes, and make myself not see that it exists....it is all about what I focus on....isn`t it? I suppose that if I acknowledge the hunters behind the bushes...those waiting to destroy the innocent....not think about the dead lifeless little bodies that will be floating in the water in about 5 seconds...or the gloating victorious shouts of the hunters...I am of course then focusing on the *negatives*....of an otherwise really pretty picture.....it`s much nicer that way....but am I content not seeing the reality of what is happening in the picture? Shell, thanks for the advice.....however, I think that I will keep that picture on the wall so that I never forget..... Sorry for the derailment cool waters.....Got my own little *epiphany* going on here.

Dmiller...kind of makes you sick to your stomache and adds some perspective to the *good* that we thought we accomplished eh? I have a picture on the wall....beautifull ..lake...sun rising some mallards back winging to land with some ducks that are all ready in the water... In the back ground...hidden in the tall grasses are some hunters with guns in the act of rising up to shoot the decending mallards... The ducks on the water that attracted the mallards in the first place...that distracted their attention from the hidden hunters and relaxed their vigilance...that gave the appearance of everything being ok....in reality were simply decoys placed their by the hunters to lure the unsuspecting within their reach. To me it is all an allegory depicting the wow year...the outreach programs...the pressures to bring folks to twig... We were the decoys.....placed there by the hunters....in order to make everything appear *safe* ... our sole purpose to attract attention/ distract from danger. We were the *lures* ...the nicer we were...the more exciting the bible we taught...the more we loved folks...made us all the more attractive decoys. I hate that picture....

Cool waters....damn, I am sorry for your treatment by a supposed representative of God...that leader. He STILL just doesn`t get it...He truly does not understand the love of God....what is sad is that this and this alone more so than any other thing....will affect his entire ability to be a minister for God. He will never truly be able to help anyone....just continue to be just a *tinkeling symbol* (sp?) ...the rest of his life...arrogantly feeling like he is doing something noble....well he ain`t doin anybody any favors either...sigh As mad as these inept minister boogers make me, I feel sorry for them as well...and their whole works based er believing lifestyle...someday somewhere it will all come crashing down...and like as not, God will get the blame. In the mean time...no telling how much damage will be wrought in peoples lives who believe and swallow their guilt trip.

Oh Bramble... that is so heartless.....please tell me the new grad went home to the parent. I know one of the kiddoes that went to the same town wow with us found out that his girl friend was pregnant after he got on the field. Of course that was just a trick to distract the wow...draw him away from doing the word...yada yada...he mustn`t let satan fool him via his girl friend and child. It never dawned on any of us that he would let something as trivial as the impending birth of his child or responsibilities entailed....prevent him from finishing his *commitment* ...you know vow a vow to God ....yada yada...Thank GOD he left and fullfilled his TRUE obligation....though the poor guy had to sneak away in the night with nothing more than a back pack while everyone slept. Tell me, as many times as I have heard of believers being told to ignore ailing parents...family crisis...told that God would heal/deliver in honor of our stand.....did anyone ever see it happen? I know of believers who were told to throw away their meds that this was how God would honor their *believing*....more than one in twi died from this.

I want to add Galen...it was wonderfull tc`s and believes like you and your wife that made twi bearable....those who honestly loved and gave of their lives....it was with these local leaders ... our loving brothers and sisters in christ we saw the answeres to prayers....the excitement for God....the love of his word....it was sweet fellowship at local levels that we all remembered and clung to when things got crazy....it was those early years of real love that we spent the rest of our time in twi looking for... If the evil hadn`t had wonderfull folks running sweet fellowship to disarm our suspicions...they never could have gotten away with what they did.... It`s you, and me and the other wonderfull believers that were in the dark as to the true inner workings of twi....we did our best in SPITE of the wolves... Damn ...it has just dawned on me....that we...*WE* were the *clothing* that the wolves wore to disguise their true nature...in order to sneak in close enough to attack and consume the unwary....that is how predators work..

Yeah, thanks Galen, we were honestly taught this stuff..... no exagerating. It was the late 70s early 80s ... I will try to explain the mindset and teaching that led up to this abusive behavior.... I was taught that The ONLY way to *love* someone was to *confront* them with the word. It was a law baby, if you or someone died, it was because you weren`t *believing* enough...what is worse is...there was a real shame connected with becoming ill or death....it was all your fault where was your head at? Galen, I know what you are saying....I never dreamed where that path from the loving spirit filled local twig folks and their seemingly harmless class would take me. Once I got away from the local fellowship (which was wonderfull) and got involved with programs wow...corpes...etc...THEN I was told...I had become an active participant in the spiritual battle...was exposed to the *deeper* spiritual *truths* ....*meat* that was fed ONLY to those more committed....those who could spiritually *handle* it.... It is a world of difference between what was expected/demanded/taught to those in local fellowships...and those on the *spiritual front lines* they called it....folks at the local level were never taught this stuff ...the reasoning was....because they couldn`t *handle* it...needed to *mature* ....(probably in reality...they were not endoctrinated enough to swallow it and would have run) If you didn`t accept these doctrines...do the *harsh* things demanded...it was because you weren`t *committed* enough..didn`t love God enough......if you objected to a leaders conduct or the content of a teaching.....it was because you weren`t *spiritual* enough to *handle* it....for those of us desperatly wanting to love God and serve him....there wasn`t much we wouldn`t do when leadership informed us that God demanded this of us...if we didn`t understand...we *held it in abeyance* trusting that Gid would make it all clear one day....IF it occured to us to doubt ....the problem was always in our own *understanding. That is why so many of us committed these unfathomably cruel things Galen....it wasn`t that we wanted to hurt our family members....abandon our loved ones...destroy our children...we did it...no matter how tough...no matter how outragious...no matter how our conscience stung....because we were told by those we trusted, (the TRUE wolves...disguised as us sheep)....that THIS was what God expected of a committed believer. As time goes by....and my thinking clears little by little...I am agahst at the heartless behavior that I displayed. I know that those I wounded....have in all probability *forgiven* me....but it doesn`t asuage the shame and guilt that I feel for having behaved in such a way....no matter what the excuse or justification is.

Yeah cool waters....damn it, I did the same to my beloved Grandmother...told her...gawd this is sickening.... Arrogantly informed her that her son who died in college as a very young man from lymphoma...died because he wasn`t *believing* rightly or enough....didn`t wantto live bad enough....it is the only time that I ever remember seeing her hurt......I am ashamed. It is one of many times I used the authority of the *word* to deeply hurt someone.... We were taught to be so arrogant and cruel.