rascal

Lol Krys good questions...I will ask mark ...as he is a contractor about your windows when he gets home in a couple of days. We have a broken rope in our windows and just use a broom stick to hold it up...(though it is very dangerous if you have little ones) If I am not mistaken though....you can remove the facade on the inside with a crow bar and repair the rope.....but maybe that is just with older windows like mine. He also has a good knowledge about tv`s ..I wilol ask him about those as well...we have a big screen that we like ...it was given to us by folks who replaced it with a plasma screen...frankly...they decided they liked the big screen better. I noticed this week that walmart had a small plasma screen tv that wasn`t unreasonable.

a while back someone posted the assets listed in their tax records I think....anyway...they still had over 40 million in assets as of a couple of years ago...... It would seem that they STILL have plenty to keep themselves operating comfortably. It really bites don`t it??? They are still functioning from OUR blood sweat and toils...can you believe it??? Geeze...all of those things we did for *God* ...all of those years...the money given....the years of our lives that we spent maintaining and improving those properties....the sacrifices WE made are keeping those monsters afloat. Having lived close to Emporia for years....all of the time spent improving the place...n then the bod sells it and pockets alla the money....it was the same with all of the other properties that twi has disposed of....rome city...plains...etc Anyway....they are enjoying the fruits of OUR labor...the fruit of our youth.....they are enjoying the money and benefets from what should have been OUR retirement funds.... and it would seem they they will be able to for some time yet....sigh

Guess that I don`t worry about it too much one way or the other...it will either happen or it won`t....all of my hoping and wishing or anticipating will not change the date or hour ...nor will it alter my daily responsibilities in this world.

AN easy mistake to make to be sure, when one considers the copious amount of manure that was issued from both orfaces on a regular basis.

Tom, Bless your heart for trying....were you treated badly for speaking up? I cannot imagine bracing the big dogs .....shiver...

Thanks Belle I think that you have presented it clearly an concisely......this sums up the twi experience for me nicely.

well...ok...and I believe that these were false ministers ....the wolves in sheeps clothing seeking whom they may devour.... I also think that their actions brand them as men of the flesh.... I think that there was a vast difference between those doing the stealing...and those being stolen from...I by no means see us all lumped into the same catagory. There was a lot of untreated mental illness in twi...sure...but I think that Twi created a lot of it...or exacerbated existing conditions with some.....a Godly organisation would have ministered to folks (and some within twi did no doubt) ...in contrast with twi leaders taking them for everything that they could get and then booting em out when their usefullness was exhausted....

Oh I know NOW ..trust me..God didn`t require these things of me...mj....but at the time I trusted the people who had *taught me God`s word*... I trusted them when they told me that God required these things of me...THAT is what is so heinous about twi....God didn`t need/desire/care for us to do the things we were ordered to do in his name...it was never the leaders we were disobeying...it was never leaders we were mistrusting...it was God (we were taught) ....I couldn`t bring myself to say no to him. I could have said no to twi and no to people...that was no problem ...as I had stood up to my family and disobeyed/disowned them at twi`s recomendation.... I did horrible things because I WAS putting *God first* in the only way that I knew how....as taught to me by the only people I knew to represent God..... A far cry from people pleasing.

?? Twi didn`t become more important....twi convinced us that they knew the bible well enough to tell us what God expected/demanded/required of his committede believers.. they utlized the respect that they garnered in Gods name and scripture to claim authority that wasn`t theirs.... we foolishly trusted these people who masqueraded as ministers...we were decieved plain and simple ...most of us. I didn`t do things abhorant to myself because I wanted to please ANYONE.......I did it because Twi...the group that taught me about God...that claimed to teach me how God worked...told me that God REQUIRED me to do these things... I did these things because I trusted those who represented God...I didn`t listen to the voice of reason in my head and heart because these same representatives for God said that if it contradicted what they said ...that it was satan trying to trick me away from God.... You are trying to paint alot of people with a very broad brush mj, and while what you posted may have applied to some....it certainly was not true for many of us.... Many of us were simply naieve young people that were decieved....you make it sound so ugly when you say the only reason that were coerced into making horrible choices...and doing bad things was that we wanted to be people pleasers. It is ugly and a personal affront to the many of us who were simply trying to be good people the only way we knew how ... in service to God. Our motives were pure...our enthusiasm was genuine...we were simply taken in by cunning, accomplished cons....it happens ...usually we smarten up after the first time we get snookered.

Cw...I have to say that to my shame, I did not stand up....I was never aware of the sexual or physical abuse...but I stood by watching children be screamed at and brow beaten it was never physical)....I was not a parent...so I bought the explanations given by the leadership why such treatment was necessary....it is to my great shame....I wish that I could apologise to each child that I stood in silence and watched as their spirit was broken. In later years ... I was on my way out the door...I was very frustrated that my young children were not what they were supposed to be in the tc`s eyes...I always thought it was my fault and that of my children....rather than the rediculous expectations of the tc. Gosh I am glad that we don`t have to endure that rediculous torture..... The kids were miserable...I was ashamed of them...it never dawned on me that it wasn`t us in the wrong.

((((watered garden))) that was not minor...the pressure to abandon your child....the harrassment for not obeying must have been unbearable...the frustration of needing help and not being able to get it from those you depended on....I am so sorry. (((Song))) How awfull...to heartlessly refuse to do that funeral...to compound your families pain was so selfish....even if they BELIEVED that the child was never alive...what would it have hurt them to provide you and your wife with some measure of comfort?? I understand your loss...any Mom who has felt her baby move in her womb understands.....twi was wrong.....I am sorry...anywhere else you guys would have been treated as befits grieving parents. I understand your delema with possession as well...when I was declared posessed at 18 ...I didn`t know where to turn...I had already disowned my natural man family....I couldn`t go to a psychiatrist..what did THEY know about devil spirits?...Shoot I didn`t even know how or when I had become posessed....I had the former bc`s full confidence when they left three months before. I previously had been told that if I went back to my home state, that I would die spiritually ...but that was all that was left for me...as I had been ordered to leave the home that I had rented...leaving it to the bc`s along with all of the furniture...dishes ...the utilities and such in my name....no money for new deposits or rent...so I went home brokenly assuming that I was to die....no where to turn for help....wondering if I should just drive into the red river to kill myself in case I were to infect others with my devil spirits. I understand having no where to go for help.

Amen and amen water buffelo.... Do you suppose that if we had had access to folks were trained better in the mental health area that we might have been able to identify the behavior of our leader(s) as one who`s actions would indicate that they were mentally unstable? We were following a lunatic who expected implicit obediance and sold out doulos commitment.... a recipe for disaster for sure. Could give us a clue as to why twi was so adamantly against seeking councel for mental health issues....also ...if the ministry leaders were in denial or insecure about their own mental stability...it could indicate why they would be so callous and in denial about ours.

Steve you are correct....It is pointless to try to converse with one who refuses to hear. I hate how oldies and mj have successfully (yet gain) derailed an imprtant thread... It does no good to try to reason with them because it simply drags things further off track. I am dissapointed that they have turned the attention away (once again) from the perpetrators and pointed the finger of blame at the innocents hurt...can`t even use the word *victim* here anymore because they have turned it into meaning something nasty and weak. They have done it successfully with every important thread regarding abuse in twi.

There is no gang mj...I don`t know cw any better than you...however, I guess that it must make it easier for you to ignore us all and what we say if you can mischaracterise us and our concernes. Once again...everything cw posted has been coroborated by seperate posters. Do you think that you can make people mistrust us and our accounts by lying? Do you think it is a service to God to falsley accuse us and discount what we endured at evil peaoples hands? You hurt people mj...that is not a service to anybody.

Well Oldies...if you wanna toss scripture around....it says that we are to obey the laws of the land....Clearly what abby`s leadership told her husband to do with the spoon...and tried to force her to allow....is contrary to the laws of this nation....in addition to being just plain wrong.

((((outnabout))) I am speechless. Thank GOD that you are ok. I am so SO gratefull that God looked after you, even when your *spiritual* family abandoned you in your time of need... I have been haunted by the accounts here...wondering if folks ever made it to a place where they were safe. Twi would push one mercilessly to the breaking point....assuming that we would toughen up....and then treat us like we were some dirty little secret when we failed...I am so ashamed to have been such an ardent supporter.

George, and JT, I do not believe that this was exagerated at all...as this is not the frst time that I had heard of this particular event...it was told to me the same way... ... about the men being so hungry that the table mate took the poor guys food ... ...what WAS news for me is what they did to the poor guy....sheeshe ... I always assumed that they got him some help ...took him to a hospital. I have also been aquainted with Evan for years and have no doubt as to his veracity.

Agreed oldies....I wish that the ministry would have helped folks when they broke down.... a lot of times (in my area) people were encouraged to go wow or corpes in order to address problems....you know...when you put your life on the line and trust God...he could deliver you...maybe some folks tried their very best to live up to everybodies enthusiastic expectations and just couldn`t make it....I wish that the ministry would have taken better care of them when they needed help....seems like we were kind of creeped out whenever it came to mental issues.

Keep up the personal attacks mj and I`ll bet that you could succede in getting this moved into the soap opera forum....then even less people will see and understand the depths of evil experienced by the poor children in twi. Hope you are proud of yourself.

Oh...and talk about tag teaming...it wouldn`t be anything like you and oldies everytime I attempt to post a thought would it?

Mj ...I have NEVER made ANYTHING up here that I have posted....everything that I have posted has been cooberated by others who endured the same treatment...I do not even KNOW cool waters...I only know the other people in her story BEFORE I ever heard of her ....damn your lyin soul.... As far as pt? the only pt I EVER participated on with cw was the SAME one YOU were on concerning health stuff sweetie...and I left THAT simply because I couldn`t stand your thoughtless ignorant spew.... There has been a new topic started about different health issues...it ain`t about you honey. So lets tally this up...you are wrong about the pt`s ...you are wrong abut the tag teaming...did it ever occur to you that you just plain offend most folks and THATS why you catch flack?? you are wrong about my veracity....both cw`s and my accounts have been confirmed independantly on this thread.... Consider please what else you might be mistaken about here....as your perceptions are seriously flawed concerning the posters and subject matter being presented.... I do not know if you are consciously evil in your attempts at slander of posters here...and attempt to cover up the evil that occured....I only know that your attacks on the innocent....your attacks on the veracity of those reporting the cruel events in twi are reprehensible....and disgusting... But hey, give yourself a pat on the back...you have done a bang up job of burying the evil ...attacking the innocent and making them feel bad with your oh so religious sounding diatribe.......vp and the rest of what was evil in twi would be so very proud.

Oh Evan..how truly reprehensible...drive the poor guy to the point of being in a catatonic state....and just dump him in the most convenient manner....Don`t bother taking him to a hospital...might involve law suite I suppose....Don`t bother to send someone to look after him since he obviously couldn`t look after himself....and make sure that this poor fellow gets home safely.....Don`t bother to contact family members to help him... Isn`t that just like twi...he wasn`t usefull anymore...so dump him like so much garbage....heartless bastards. The cruelty is unfathomable to me...this is what you got for giving your utmost for God....putting your life on the line...placing your trust in God...being a sold out doulos sacraficing all ...your utmost for his highest.....and all of the other crapola that they fed us to get us to enroll in the corpes program. Just when I didn`t think that my opinion of lcm couldn`t sink any lower....

What is a darn shame is....that oldies and mj have managed to bury yet another important thread with their ceasless attacks. A lot of important information got lost because folks aren`t going to be willing to wade through 23 pages of bickering. I don`t understand why it is important to hide this information from the general public but oldies and mj did the same thing on the sexual abuse thread and the forced abortion thread...buried it so deep in finger pointing and recriminations...false accusations ...that few will bother to try to wade through it all to learn the utter callousness and cruelty that was visited upon innocent people.. I do not understand why these predators need to be hidden and covered for...I am agahst at the lengths you two would go to hide the evil that was wrought and to cover for the perpetrators of such pain....that you would attack and cast aspersions on the character of the witnesses and the victims to the crimes committed in order to white wash their character is deplorable.

You ignore a lot of things that are important mj, it is a shame.... but your choice.

Gosh you guys....I hate that we are going to miss you all....looks like it is going to be a small group this year....Herbal... have you talked to hawk n corey? Bow and the princess said that thye were coming....but I haven`t hear from them since they left tennessee....maybe I shouldda kep em here till the roast eh? Song remains..are you coming? My oldest will not be able to attend this year....unless she can talk her father into bringing her... I am unsure whether or not I will bring the rest of them.... Any word from tessa Jardinero or oen? Where are hope and John?