rascal

Lol...we will figure out a sign...remind me to tell you about me n pawtucket mistaking each others identities last year...rofl I thought I would DIE of mortification.... My husband (aka guest spouse) arrived before I did last year and had no trouble following his nose to sudos stew ... he didn`t know anyone either...

Well yeah Sudo...only fifty feet...but there was a cabin in between them that Hawk stumbled into and terrified some poor woman with a baby....lol We may need to mark our cabins/campsights with balloons or something.

And We are humbly gratefull to God for guiding us to a life free from the bondage and abuse endured, and the struggles involved in living lives that were involved in twi. Life is Good....

I only know that our life has been infinatly better since leaving twi...in every catagory...more blessings ..joy ... progress...health ..answered prayers. The lack of pfal or twig or programs have not adversly affected our life in any way. The freedom and peace are exhilerating....the deeper understanding humbeling... I have not missed anything about the pfal classes or fellowships ....as the fellowship and friendships now enjoyed since association with twi doesn`t take up all of my time and resources anymore.... make everything that I thought good in twi pale in comparison.... I think that the quality of life WITH access to pfal when compared with the benefits enjoyed without .... speaks volumes about twi and its products value or effectivness. Life with pfal = constant struggle ... Life without pfal= peace and abundance... I think that speaks volumes....I feel badly for folks who think that every good thing in life hinges on whether or not you are able to sit through pfal on a regular basis....sigh About the only good thing that I can honestly say about twi/pfal and the spiritual privation endured, is that afterwards one tends to savor the priveleges and freedom ... the great grace of God in a way unable to be apreciated by anyone who has not suffered from abuse...spiritual bullying and rampant hypocracy.

Guess I would have to go with Shaz on this one...most of the younger folks I know are hard workers...the young folks I worked with at the plant in the last couple of years...work very very hard....many times 12 hour days without complaint. My kids though not old enough to be in the work force yet, worked all summer with their Dad putting on roofs (hot nasty work) assisting folks in Orlando with storm damage...digging ditches for drainage...helping tarp and shutter the neighnorhood before the 2nd storm hit...aiding elderly people who would have lost a lot...without even getting paid. I hear that they were invaluable... I am quite encouraged by the callibur of the younger folks in our area...I don`t know if being rural makes a difference...but most kids around here grow up putting long hours in on the farm. Many that I know in the 25 to 35 yr old range here, work the farm to keep it in the family AND a full time job. You cannot make a living farming...so you have to bring in income as well...or lose the farm that has been in the family 3 plus generations.

We just won`t know untill we get there Krys...but please come, we will make every effort to accomodate you....including bringing the party to your rv. I usually coordinate a lot of the food prep...so people generally congregate at the campground...however each weinie roast is different. I will be with you if you chose to camp...if you let me know ahead of time I will reserve a spot by ours and will be able to assist you in whatever you need.. At Tims ford parking would have been no prob...but since this is a new local I just don`t know...but cannot imagine that there will be a problem. In past years we spent a lot of time around the campfire at the campgrounds. I cannot tell you the wheres and hows...only that each year everybody was been well taken care of....well except poor pawtucket...nobody ever woke him up for breakfast and there was never any bacon left for him....:-( Please know that if you make the effort to come ...we will take care of any needs that arrise....don`t worry about brownies....just get yourself here so we can enjoy your excellent company...I have wanted to meet you for years:-)

Thanks for clarifying Garth...I truly wish the system would work...when /if it ever does, trust me I will be the first on board....lol This home schooling gig is exhausting. You are correct, at one time our nations school produced astounding individuals, and yes, there are some pockets that still do. It is embarassing though, to see how our students rank world wide education wise....we have fallen so far below the standard... I guess that because of my experiences I that I despair of seeing those in chjarge in the system willing to humble themselves enough to be willing to examine the shortcomings and address the failings.

Krys...usually most stuff has been held at the campsites...but that was when Hawk was setting up....stuff has always been spontanious before. Never fear there are usually folks to ferry the campers back and forth from the cabins if any unusual mischief is going on... Please come.... I will have my camper.

Garth, I`d also like to reiterate...it was not one but two seperate Huntsville City school teachers who strongly exhorted us to home school our children...the teachers IN the system themselves! Up to that point I had never even considered the possibility. That was what opened my eyes to the need to go the extra mile for my kiddoes. This was not a decision undertaken lightly.

Garth Hon, my responsibility is to my children...not to let them be an experiment in a broken system.... hoping that all of the stars and planets will aligne to give them access to a good school with good teachers ...free from bullies ... drugs and guns... hoping that they aren`t unduly influenced by kids with no morals or character... The proof to me is that everywhere I go...I am complimented extravigantly on the conduct of the children. Their manners ... the respect they display...the care exhibited for Family and friends..their intellegence...They excell in every area that they choose to participate in...be it karate ..theatre .. sports.. they are several levels above their grade in reading and math skills... It is that way with so many of the children of the home school families I know... I am sorry that public school is in the mess it is, truly I am....but I adamantly refuse to sacrafice mine on the alter of trying to fix a broken system....nor will I abdicate my responsibility to them on the chance that I MIGHT get them into a decent school system ..or possibly get lucky and get some of those rare gems of teachers.... I know that they are out there. It isn`t even the teachers fault...it`s the undisciplined kids....the drugs...the guns...the bullies ...the rampant sex ...even in the rural schools....Get this...the *cool* thing these days in our local school is for these teenaged girls to have *mixed* babies...they all meet at the local strip mall to parade their little darlings around...some of em are only THIRTEEN!!! This is not the environment I chose for my kids to be in....I like my kids being around other kids that chose to persue goals and live their lives with good character and morals..... See my kids take karate with public school kids...we KNOW what it is like....they have told me that they are thankfull that we care enough to take the time to give them the best we can. It isn`t easy, trust me..It`d be a whole lot easier to send em off for 9 hours a day... There are many many things that make it worth while and more important to us than trying to fix something that won`t acknowledge it`s even broke.

Garth it is no lie...and I am offended that you would say this of me. It is a mistake for you to think that you know how parents are treated if you do not have a child in the system...the system does NOT want to be fixed....just try to have any imput with the teachers and administrators today. They are arrogant and condecending...they will not listen and you are treated as a problem.... they are very offended if you offer suggestion and you are branded a trouble maker. You would not believe the garbage that my sisters and friends have been dealing with in the last year or so.... I have had friends who have tried....trust me. Tell ya another thing Garth....many folks don`t want their kids on ritalin (sp?) well if your kid is in the system it is just too bad...I saw in the news a couple of years back where a child in tenn was removed from the parents custody because of their refusal to put their son on it...sound far fetched?? It`s true... I went to Grissom Garth...It was horrible...the asst principle was a horrendous liar and the principle was in later years dismissed from the school system for a variety of wierd behaviors...I remember the anger I felt at being at the mercy of these amoral creeps... Yeah I DO think that crappy schools and inatentive uninvolved parents played an enormous role in my vulnerability as a teen... As much as I respect you Garth, I do not think that you are well informed enough on this subject to be able to make an accurate judgement.

Nother thing Garth...even those who can afford private school in our area have gone with homeschooling due to the superior education quality and the oportunity to instill valuable morals and character. In our local group there ar a couple of doctors families...several attornys families...a 2nd grade public school teacher (former) a nurse.. a retired pair of millionairs...you get the picture...it`s not just the nuts on the fringes chosing this option (though there are those too) ....it is mainly folks who do not want to sacrifice their children while awaiting a broken system to fix itself.... Maybe if you had kids, you might understand just how precious that little one is and how seriously we take our responsibility to raise that child in the most beneficial manner to THEM...to best enable THEM to succede in this world... not put them in school because that is what is best for the *system* Many in our group entered their children in school with the mindset of helping fix the problems....guess what?? the system doesn`t WANT to be fixed nor do the teachers apreciate a parents concerns.

Garth...yeah, I went through both private AND Huntsville city schools...and the city schools SUCKED...the teachers were indifferent...the administrators were a number one a-- holes and bullies...damn right I wouldn`t subject my kids to those punks. As a matter of fact if one of em EVER tried with one of my kids what they did to me...they would certainly think they had run into a buzz saw. Not to mention the kids at school nowadays with drugs and guns...and yeah even here in rural tennessee...about the time I was to enter my oldest in school...a student carried a gun to our county school and killed two students a teacher and injured another..... Garth...maybe the poor quality of my public education plus the lack of guidance by parents is what made me vulnerable to a cult at 17... My parents sucked my school sucked...maybe I am trying to do a little better for my children. My resolve was formed when not one but TWO different teachers on seperate occasions, from said school system strongly exhorted us to consider homeschooling if we could not afford a private school for our daughter..... When the teachers themselves are in despair over what they are not able to teach...(do mainly at that time to the time spent with a small problem element of children) ...it`s time to sit up and take notice.

I home school my kids chas... Been doing it for 10 years....I have watched the majority of the kids around us growing into intelligent..well balanced successfull individuals. Colleges here in Tenn have begun to PREFER homeschoolers sighting that they are generally better prepared scholastically and more mature upon their arrival. The last few years the national geography and spelling bee winners have been dominated by homeschoolers. Our kids do well with their regular studies and then are free to persue other interests....drama..karate...athletics..scouting to name a few..most of our kids would be bored silly in a class room...most would rather work hard and get the work done so that they are free to perue other studies that interest them. When I look at the fine upstanding adults these kids are developing into (not just mine) compared with the many trouble makers I know from the public schools ....the differences are significant enough to make it all worth while.

Lol...it was WORSE on audio...which was the way I endured it the most...shiver All of us staring at the same stupid posters...like they were so enlightening....bu tts sore...dying for a cig.... I must have taken it a minimal of 25 times...and yeah I faked the enthusiasm as well...after the 3rd or 4th time of taking the class....I quit trying to figure out why I didn`t *get* it...I kept taking it over and over...thinking that was the key to spirituality and having my eyes enlightened....I brought new folks and told THEM it was great too...because THATS what a spiritually mature person did. I never DID get it...just hyped it up cause I wanted to be spiritual too.

Yeah ex.. Think about it...Have you ever SEEN the cage of a neglected bird??? It is very sad ...It smells because of all of the poop and spoile food in the bottom ... Their food bowl LOOKS full....but consists nothing but empty seed husks... though there appears to be sustenance ....there is nothing left of nutritional value...their water bowl is fouled...they are miserable and starving....but because there was at one time food and water supplied they hopefully await for another spoiled morsal to be flung sporadically to them....the poor birds are anemic and bedraggled ... forlornly wondering why their lot is so difficult...afraid to leave because even though they WATCH the other little birds enjoying their freedome...they have been told that there are *cats* outside of their cage....meanwhile the rest of the birds are outside the open enjoying a never ending feast in the sunshine.. Psssst little birds.....It`s ok...the owner got rid of the *cat* ;-)

After thinking about it...as much as I like pizza, I wouldn`t be averse to a fresh caught little brookie gutted and scewered immediatly upon leaving the stream over a litlle campfire...mmmmMMMMmmmm Only problem is ..after enjoying fresh caught brook trout ....all other fish especially store bought tastes old and nasty.... While most folks can consume just any old fish and be content because that is all they have had the oportunity to enjoy.......anyone who has enjoyed fresh wholesom trout tends to find the frozen processed fish in the supermarket as stale and unplatable. What happens if you are told and you believe that the only fish to be eaten is in the walmart freezer section ...or a few days old at a fish market...or if fresh caught even a different han trout? Well...I suppose that you would think that your fish was jeest FINE!

Two points oldies... Number 1 ... Most of the *quality* pieces ...the ones worth keeping, are the antiques that have been a part of my family years before I was ever married.... Number 2 ... I don`t like fish...the bones can get stuck and choke you even when using the utmost care while eating....I`d rather eat pizza.

Can you stand another analogy? (I guess that I am venting TOO lol) The afore mentioned vehicles...every vehicle we have ever owned in the last ten years practically sits in our back yard..the only ones NOT here lol are the ones that broke down too far away from home to manage to drag back.... Now when *I* look at our yard....I see all of this broken down garbage that is a horrible eye sore...When spouse looks at it ...he sees value. I cannot get rid of the garbage because...hey...the torn up yellow utility van with the shattered window and broken grill has a good engine and tranny....the dumptruck might be usefull one day (it hasn`t been for ten years now) the beat up pontiac only needs motor mounts ...it has good ac...the vw only needs tires...the broken down rv makes a great paint/tool storage area...the old boat is fixable (though has not been in the water since the weekend before my 16 yo wa born)...anyway ...you get the idea....my yard is SO full of old junk ... that spouse views as valuable... on the reverse side of the coin...I have a bazillion dogs n horses that I have rescued through the years...I see the loving souls..enjoy the gratefull nickers...enjoy the beauty of a horse peacefull grazing....what does HE see??? The massive amount of poop generated...the flies drawn...the grass eaten down...the money sunk in the black hole of vet bills feed etc..lol So value is relative...what I see as trash has value to mate....what I value the mate sees as expensive waste.....lol so value is all in the eye of the beholder... as long as we *see* value in twi/pfal nobody could convince us otherwise...when one enjoys better ...they can look at the junk and see it for what it is.

Amen Ex! Gosh it has been 19 years for me as well.... The only thing I can figure is that we were TOLD that pfal was the end all be all holy grail of christianity....and we believed it. We were too young and naieve to have had enough life experiences to realise that there were other very legitimate christian groups...it never occured to us to doubt what we were told. Guest spouse and I have been going round and round about something lately that reminds me of how we were with pfal....see we have this old ratty second hand den furniture....we have had it for years....it is stained and ratty from all of the kids dirty feet spilled juice....etc. Now granted it has served our purpose for many years...each piece has been entirely functional....but being second hand from different sources...nothing matches or fits very well in OUR den... ....and granted... when we got the pieces ....we were glad to have them.......and because we didn`t have any OTHER furniture...and though tired and second hand...they seemed adequate .... The problem is...now spouse does not want to get rid of the garbage that he is accustomed to ....you have to throw out the old living room furniture BEFORE you have room for the newer better higher quality living room suit...Now, we can keep a few of the pieces of furniture that have withstood the ravages of time and childrens abuse that remain functional and have value...but you know...you still have to get rid of the garbage in order to enjoy better furniture. My father has offered us a complete living room suit...that looks new....it will look lovely in the den....but guess what? My husband won`t let me throw away the OLD furniture to make a spot for the new...(s`funny he is that wy about a half dozen vehicles sitting in the yard not running as well) now mind you he is able to ignore the filth or the back cushion of one recliner was chewed away by the dog and the reclining handle is broken on the other....One recliner is broken and sits sideways...I can see that it is garbage... I am embarrassed to have anyone walk into my home because THEY can see that though it gets the job done.....it is garbage...but in spite of what the rest of us can all see.... it STILL has value to Mark...he worked for it he paid for it ..he hauled it home....and besides that the kids would just destroy the new furniture anyway.... So we sit on the same old drap dilapidated (though marginally) functional mis matched furniture. It is sad because there is so much better available to enjoy....Spouse will never enjoy the new quality furniture that is available for us while he insists on keeping the garbage the den.... That is how I feel about our spirituality and at times unreasonable attatchment to pfal/twi teachings and life style. It has GOT to be good because we invested such an enormous amount....we ignore the rips and stains ...the faint aroma of cat urin that one chair exudes.....and convince ourselves that this is the only stuff worth having anyway ..thus completely ignoring the fact that there is an entire world of lovely *furniture* out there for us to enjoy with a minimal of effort...many different styles to suit ones individual tastes as well. I intend to hold on to the few precious pieces that have retained their value and when spouses back is turned...lol haul the rest of the worn out *furniture* to the burn pile with the rest of the garbage..

Wow, thanks kit, I hadn`t even heard of the movie....and no watered garden, Chuck never was a buddist...his mama was a staunch christian, and always had him in church.... He says in his book though, that he was at a Billy Graham crusade after coming home from korea in the service that he made his commitment to God. I highly recommend his book *Against all odds*...It is his life story....and man...has he had it tough...it was his faith in God and his determination to succede that took him so far.

sweeeet ...Star wars party at KRYS`S!!!! I`ll bring the pop corn...

*AFRAID* that someone would teach something off the word....lol you are probably right wth.... The only thing ALLOWED to be taught after a while was regurgitation from Craigs classes, only the books that standing grads wrote, and sts tapes...so many of which truly were *OFF the word* That which they greatly FEARED came upon them! rofl I guess that little gem applied in this case anyway...

Lol...ok Cw...thanks....and thanks JT ...What is wierd is....that it really wasn`t Mark that kept me at the student (subserviant) level...it was ME who didn`t believe that I had the right to question the corpes/teacher/man of God/husband....as I had been conditioned to think when in twi. TOO wierd...when I finally busted loose and began to tell him what I REAAAALLY (shoot after ONLY 15 years of marriage) thought...he was agahst....was genuinely puzzled and hurt that I hadn`t felt like I was equal or that had been afraid to speak up.... Incidently... It wasn`t HIM that I was afraid of...but the fear of not being a virtuous Godly type of woman...a dissapointment to God for being rebellious....that is what kept me silent and obediant when I should of spoken up with him and in twi as well... It was pretty memorable for me when he confided that he was darn glad not to be shouldering the entire burden of decision making alone anymore......really, I can see now that my contributions before that had amounted to little more than living life with a mindless bobble head doll...... lol

whew...a sore spot with me fo sure....as I married a corpes man....for many years there was not any equality because he was expected to be the teacher ...you know had to bring me up to corpes standard...make sure I was up to snuff spiritually....if he didn`t ...it was HIS bu tt that was in the wringer....great doubt would be cast upon his spirituality. Anyway, even after leaving it took many years for me to throw off the *student* mindset...to dare to speak up when necessary....to believe that I had the right to make decisions regarding myself and family.....to trust myself.....lol NOW they can`t shut me up ;-)