rascal

WHERE was our culpability Oldies and WTH? We were very young, we were very naieve, many of us already had been kicked around by life. We dared turn to those who offered us hope in the form of God and scriptures... Those who offered hope to kids with one hand, ended up dealing a destroying blow with the other......... I don`t get it.... Please explain our culpability...I really don`t understand. Why is it wrong to be angry over the betrayal by those who offered us hope? Why are you defending and excusing those who stole from these kids? Why are you demonizing those who were betrayed?

uhhh throw mysterious leafy vine covered wood on the campfire n dance inna the smoke?

Yes ma`am ex ....sigh

I guess that I am puzzled...where was I at fault? I was 17 years old...someone promised to teach me the bible. I trusted the people who taught me the bible .. I got screwed by the people who won my trust with the scriptures. I do not understand where I am at fault. I do not understand why you find me/us so culpable, and yet brand the people who utilized deception to harm us, as folks who simply made some *mistakes* Why is my gullibility, my naivety cause for such vitriol on your part, while the perpetrators of the betrayal are worthey of respect? Why do you see my anger and disgust of such a gravid betrayal, as one who is blaming others for their poor choices? Honest, I just don`t get it..

Gosh, did I spill the beans?

Which people wth...Vp or the ones who trusted him?

I guess that would be a very convenient way to assuage ones guilty conscious for wrongs committed wth. Lemmee get this straight now... vp destroyed countless lives because of his choice to live as a man of the flesh...we need to chalk it up to *mistakes* and it`s still OUR fault??? We shouldn`t have been so foolish as to trust him when he promised to teach us all the answeres to life and Godliness??? Guess that is a problem with teens wth, they tend to be naieve and trust in anothers altruism...shame on us. Why are you mad at US for being disgusted by what VP did?

You know ...I found the music in twi was really enjoyable and at times truly inspiring, when I was in...so many talented artists, didn`t matter the style to me...... It would seem like anything good that was there...was eventually tinkered with and spoiled or just plain dismantled...(and not just in the music catagory) I don`t understand why....but just LOOK where all of their attempts at perfection and schemes has gotten em....blech!

Snort...what? us stickin dollars in your belt while you tree dance? Play who can scare pawtucket the worst? Or is it so many snorts of Hawks pear juice? Oh, I know I know ...facing down a park officer in the midst of all of our um fun....hee hee. or shall we just organise a snipe hunt for her benefit?

Too bad about the saints that had to pay for the *mistakes* old vp made while he was supposed to be learning along the way, eh WTH? ...guess that they were all expendable in God`s plan as long as vpw was learning ? Now why couldn`t *I* see that before?? I cannot tell you how dissapointed I am that you don`t value my pov enough to address the valid issues....snort You are pretty funny though ...so filled up with your own pompousness...as IF you are denying us some great treat by witholding your great pearls of wisdom in not posting often...(anybody else sobbing brokenly in dissapointment?) Your twi arrogance is showing wth, you musta been pretty high up in the food chain in twi to have developed such an inflated opinion of yourself and your beliefs.

I thought that you weren`t a fan of sarcasm oldies? Can you not counter my points intellegently?

Harry I remember those damn forced twigs...I HATED em...those of us going wow that year had training sandwitched in between all of the forced twigs and meetings n don`t forget your state/twig job....n then you had to try to find a cool place while the sun blistered over head ...just about the time it was cool enough to start stirring...it was time to dress up (what a joke while camping) and head for the big top...where there would be what 3 different teachings dragging loooong into the night....sigh Prior to that there was a lot of fun to be had at roa...

EVERYTHING taught by a man of the flesh is suspect oldies.... That is why you must begin afresh...Catcup is right....he will reestablish what is important. Untill then, your mind will be so fogged with false doctrine and half truths that it will be extremely difficult for you to NOT be deaf to the very voice of God. While you are immersed in wierwille dogma, in all likelyhood you will be following the course of a *man of the flesh*...it will be terribly difficult to recieve the things of the *spirit*

You are not aware of the joys in my life because you chose not to read those posts fella, You don`t WANT to see what others see. My disgust with the actions of a man of the flesh mog wannabe is but a small facet of my thoughts.... My life has been scattered all over these forums...thread upon thread of my growth and epiphanies (ad nausium for some no doubt lol) .....the kids, the home in the country, good health...the horses, various and assundry critters that bring me happiness...the friends, the karate, the community...the rescue work.....the job...plenty of *stuff* that brings me happiness....on and on...blessings in every catagory......well the hubby can be border line trying at times....lol...Every so often...when I feel like I am completely content...that I have all I could ever want....I am suprised with yet another new found thing to bring joy. I do not want it to seem as if I am bragging about each new accomplishment or obsticle overcome.....on the contrary...I am humbly gratefull for the blessings ....the priveleges accorded one who is unworthey....... Oldies, I refuse to turn this into a ....ing contest of *God likes My way better because I got more stuff* than you... The joy and blessings didn`t begin to accumulate because of what I did....it began because of what I QUIT doing. My life does not fall in the catagory of *renouncing the word* though I absolutely advocate and have...the dumping of twi/wierwille/man of the flesh/wolf in sheeps clothing doctrines....

Poor oldies I leave you sitting on a bench, fiercely clinging to your cold lifeless baby doll...determined not to budge one step further on your journey...determined to remain ...not knowing the joys that lie ahead for you...

Yeeessssss...jooOOOinnnn us Radar...and aaaaaall will be made clear shortly....muuuahahahahahahah

Oldies...You are COMPLETELY mistaken, again...sheeshe....I began to reexamine twi doctrine years after leaving twi but several years before I EVER heard of any of the transgressions of the twi leaders. I was absolutely CLUELESS at that point concerning the evils practiced by the bot....matter of fact you n me wouldda been on the same side not TOO long ago.... I maintained a staunch belief in twi/wierwilles teachings for a long time after twi...thinking that the only thing wrong with twi is that they didn`t want me! Another premiss of yours that is proven entirely wrong oldies... Do you see this guys??? Oldies wants it to appear as if we just arbitrarily dumped holy scripture for some silly petty little reason... What you are in TRUTH doing Oldies, is attempting to completely negate the work of God in our lives and the direction that HE has led us on our journey since leaving the anemic spiritual environment that was the wasteland of twi dogma......

First you said that we Renounced the *word* because of others sins...we have told you that this premiss is false.. Second you change it to say that we dumped twi teachings because of wierwilles transgressions...again this is proven false. The true concensus here on this thread by the vast majority of posters is that .... Twi teachings (not the word) were dumped becausa because BECAUSE.... After closer examination, we have deemed them to be false...contaminated....(not because of wierwilles transgressions as you opine) many of us started reexamining our fake babies with a critical eye long before we ever heard rumors of vp`s evil works.... The true answere to your false and ever changing premisses is....that most of us have started all over again ....much to our joy, we have discovered that it was twi and its doctrines that were flawed....due no doubt to the fact that the teachings were the works of a man of the flesh....(such tends to be that way)...the doctrine was flawed.... not God. We dumped twi teachings NOT because of wierwilles transgressions...a.but because we realised most of it was just plain garbage... Catcup and others are right...God is plenty big enough to substantiate what is important... I know...sa shame after all of these years of nurturing and loving our little fake babies and bathing them in that filthy bathwater ...as children...dearly wanting to believe it was a real live child....but like every little girl....we must put away our dolls....though dissapointing...imagine our unbounded joy one day when we grow up and have the privelege of holding loving succoring a living breathing loving infant....We have grown up...we realise that the genuine baby is so much more vital than the fake baby doll we played with all of those years... All of the nurture in the world will never bring that doll to life oldies.

Does it make you mad that folks like oak and others have wonderfull spiritually healthy lives that begin AFTER throwing out the bath water, the baby, (although I must say, after closer examination most have concluded that there never really WAS a baby...just a cleverly manufactured realistic looking fake doll).....the tub... Does it irritate you that God works even bigger and better for us all OUTSIDE the confines of twi dogma? I think that we irritate you because you cannot reconcile your belief system to the reality of a spiritually healthy life AFTER leaving twi.

Well oldies, if you cannot trust the man in that which was small..(IF one can consider lying, adultery, fornicating, and just cussed meanness small)..vpw his very own moggy SELF said that you cannot ever trust them with anything big.... Ya suppose he was snickering under his breath at the *truth* of that statement?

I think that he was just plain ole jealous of the attention anyone got if it took the spot light off of him for even the minutest of seconds...(I think that it stung that nobody apreciated HIS artistic endeavors)...so must make the music bland and boring... If folks were enjoying the music ....it would steal some of his thunder...I think thats why he cancelled roa..canned the original classes...books by other authors... n other programs...He just couldn`t measure up...people weren`t looking at/talking about him.

Agreed, ex 70s.... It wasn`t untill I ditched all of those *formulas* and *principles* that required God to act in a particular fashion...at my bidding...that things started to click again spiritually...You know...it took 5 friggin years AFTER leaving twi before I started questioning the absolute *truths*....what a waste.

My my, how DID this thread get derailed into a rascal is a stupid head topic...again. (warning...attempted dragging of thread back on topic) Twi worships an idol....I think that the examination of the fruit in the ministry as well as the fruit in the lives of those who still attempt to practice the correct ministry aproved rituals, relegate the whole belief system into the idolotry catagory....there isn`t any other WAY they could have disintigrated so spectacularly otherwise.

Lol...yeah but usually only when YOU, Oldies are trying to cover the evil up....Only when YOU, Oldies want to excuse the evil...Only when YOU, oldies want to blame those assaulted...only when YOU attempt to negate the pain and suffering endured.....so yeah I guess that would constitue a rather large block of time .. However IN my defense...I DO take time to post on the weinie roast thread too...and wierwilles sins have yet to be brought up there by me....It would appear that you are mistaken about the sum total of my posting focus and ability...lol mistaken.

Ummm shall I leave the kids home this year in case we run into a spot of trouble?