rascal

Your right vertical, thanks. You cannot change someones perceptions I guess. Have your thread cat....police it and oust anyone else who dares attempt discussion with the great geek...control it, run it precisely to your specifications.... I no longer care enough about the answeres to endure your insults..... Never mind Geek, thanks.

You see that lil icon at the end of my sentance? (?) That indicates it was a question....not an assault on geeks honor. A question catcup....aparently your panties are bunched because I dared address the great research Geek with a question concerning his premiss... Dangit, I like geek, I don`t know why you are making this a big old hairy deal... He is always courtious a gracious in his replys even when addressing those whom might disagree...he doesn`t appear to have a problem with our questions or misunderstandings....what the heck is YOUR problem cat? You been stomping around kicking over ant hills since you came back...I don`t get it, you never used to act this way....it is dissapointing. I am genuinely interested in geeks opinion...and you are making this into an all out war.... It is getting to the point where hearing his answere is not worth the price of having to put up with your hissy fits.

That tears it Catcup, I made no false accusations against Geek. You have turned this thread into something that it never was....an assault on Geek... Criminy girl how many pages you gonna keep railing away about the unfairness to Geek? ...He`s a big boy....he was asked some questions..... You act like some furious tigress defending her cubs...seriously, geek doesn`t need it... Nobody is insulting him, on the contrary, we are giving him the respect of politely awaiting his address to our questions...... Please untwist your panties and join our discussion....I imagine that you have a great deal of imput. Soooo aside from your now very clear personal opinion of rascal.....and your obsesive need to protect geeks honor....have you an opinion on the following? Why are some held accountable in the scriptures and some not....why do some scriptures say that the offending brother repent...and THEN forgive? It is my opinion that we do not understand forgiveness and what it truly entails, according to these records... I would like to understand....not fight, nor put up with your petty insults, and attempts at repremand.

Pawtucket, count me in please. As a veteran weinie roaster, I would be pleased to offer my assistance in your endeavor. I have a good camper now, so distance is not a problem.

Geeeze oak, If THATS the case...it`s no WONDER my bu tt is so big .....lol

Yeah oak you have...lol like the time that everyone returned to camp sans three of the younger boys on the infamous snipe hunt???? Now THAT was a display of emotion....lmao...amazing how quick that camp emptied out looking for those boys.....hee hee

We and us meaning everyone who has posted here has offered their opinions one way or another in answere to the question posed by Geek... now it`s his turn to return the courtesy:-)

Catcup, We are not assaulting you or geek, no slams or insults have been issued we are simply having a discussion here over the idea that Geek presented.... We have all honestly answered Geeks question, the answeres very, or did he not intend for us to answere? That being the case, he ought not to have posted his thread as a question. Now in return, I ask you or geek to answere my question, this is how discussion works....cow girl has made it much easier, by providing the scriptures that I would like addressed. BTW, I respect Geek, and thus the honest interest in how he addresses these scriptures...else I wouldn`t give a damn about his opinion. Thankyou.

Rofl 3 cents

Wow, now THATS what I`m talking about....thanks cow girl. How bout DEM scrips?

I hear that Arizona is good for folks with breathing troubles......I know that my asthma problems always disapear in Fla..... sometimes just a temporary respite from Tennessee is good enough to help me through the rest of my athsma season.

I don`t understand why you think that it would be any different for us than what God himself requires? He doesn`t ask it, he REQUIRES it of us.

That comment was more directed at the folks that jumped on his wagon the ones that had already whipped out their ever present wagging fingers.

Please stop reading emotion where there is none catcup, this is merely a discussion of ideas, something that happens here when one posts such a simple honest question as Geek has done. That is part of the healing annd growth process...part of evaluating and cleansing our minds from misinformation aquired from the teachings of twi. I await the answeres Geek is courtiously willing to supply, at his leasure of course, in the meantime the discussion moves on. All input is valuable, be it yours, mine, geeks, as I am quite sure that God has continued to aid and nurture each of us as we continue our journey after leaving twi.

Nope, Don Wierwille asked for forgiveness...he met the requirement. I am with you on that. Where do you get that I am telling you whom to forgive? I never intimated it was any of my business at all. Was it not Geek who was telling me whom *I* am to forgive?

You bet Catcup, as have we all, I thank you for the courtesy of consideration of my questions as they are genuine.

Catcup do NOT accuse me of ignoring the sacrafice of God`s son. That offends me deeply. We do not recieve that which he gave untill we repent and ask.....that is entirely different. Did you read my words at all?? Have you honestly considered how unrepentance of sins and the instant *grace* belief allowed rampant evil in twi? Had we help vp to these standards scripturally required......he would have been required to repent (change) how many lives would have been spared? As it was he went to his grave ...hurting people till the day he died...leaving the legacy of a ministry with people who carried the evil to ever greater hights. Do you understand how insidious and evil it is to attempt to operate forgiveness in a way OTHER than that which it was set up by God? If one doesn`t have to repent, they remain evil. I think that is the biggest fault I find with a lot of extwi leaders and spin offs...they seem to be of the opinion of the evil practiced...Oh well...to bad so sad...get over it...It isn`t *MY* fault that you won`t forgive...yada yada remaining in victim mentality....yada yada....no responsibility ...no repentance ...no change and therefor still practicing evil. Repentance is required or it does the offender no good.

Wow, even before I asked....lol Dartanion You are a better person than I :-)

Oldies, simply because I am unable to forgive, due to the offending parties refusal to repent....that in no way can be considered harboring wrath when the sun goes down....that is not applicable in this context. Shoot, it`s not like I go to bed chanting the mantra *I hate wierwille*...lol I have simply withheld that which is not mine to give, not untill the offending party meets the criteria that God in the scriptures has laid out, and that he requires of us. I am able to do that and remain at complete peace, because I understand that the responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the offending party....when they have repented and asked for forgiveness, then I am required and will happily forgive....embracing them back into the center of God`s will :-).

Forgiveness is forgiveness...whether God is granting it or us.... God requires us to repent and ask... I will do no less.....as it is a disservice to the one forgiven to recieve without making the proper changes. Consequences are a major factor in reevaluating whether or not to continue harmfull behavior. Do you all not see that this is a major factor in the exponential escalation of twi`s evil practices...NOBODY believed that they were required to repent first....so evil was allowed to run rampantly unchecked... Repentance is required for the one being forgiven...or it just plain isn`t forgiveness.

I was always more sensative with asthma during my pregnancies. It sounds like there was something environmental that impacted your health, I am sorry, damn. I am glad that you are seeking help from a more knowledgable source. I am sorry for your troubles, maybe these folks can put you on the right track.

Any answeres as to why some were worthey and some were not? Seems to me betrayal of Gods people were pretty high on the sh-t list...and as of yet I have read of no forgiveness granted those.

Nope, we did not recieve forgiveness untill we asked catcup....think about it...if forgiveness was automatically granted, folks then have no need to repent, change ... Repentance and asking are required before we recieve. I cannot believe that you can ignore such a basic spiritual principle.

It all boils down to whether or not the other party repents, and asks, otherwise what we are offering is not really forgiveness....it`s just kind of a mental dissmissal on our part.... Come on, quit spouting platitudes long enough to think outside of the box for a miniute.

Course he said that oldies...he needed to feel like what he was doing was ok. How bout you oldies, any thoughts as to why some folks in the bible were worthey of scorn and condemnation and others worthey of forgiveness?