rascal

I don`t enjoy being portrayed as a heartless hate mongering bitch because of my unwillingness to forgive or excuse twi leaders sin. I just feel that there is something fundamentally important at stake here.....something that we might not see due to our notions aquired in twi. Please, just tell me why I am to dismiss the clear instructions in luke....before branding me as a big meanie.

Exactly, and I hope that this demonstrates a little better what I was trying to explain about unconditional forgiveness as a detriment to the one forgiven. I believe that it was the missaplication of forgiveness ...the *think no evil* doctrine that allowed twi to become such a harmfull place cw, So far as I can see, what is being proposed directly contradicts scripture, and could be damaging to both parties.

well I guess we would to him when he turns off his puter ..no? I am not a very deep thinker...lol

Ok...let me try to put this in different terms, as I understand luke.... I have children, they fight, they hurt one another at times....I don`t just require the kid that is getting the stew beat out of em to turn around n forgive the offending brother... On the contrary, I require the offending child to be seperated from the rest of the family untill such time as he is willing to repent (change) and ask for forgiveness (or apologise)... Then and only then is the offending child is welcomed back into the family activities.... Were I to allow the offending child to continue his behavior unchecked....he would probably grow into a viscious, unconscionable bully.....WHICH incidently, is what I feel is EXACTLY what happened in twi.

Ummm mj, how does that address Luke? If you can tell me why it is ok to ignore the direct instructions listed, then I will consider your view point, untill then it is nothing more than speculation. none of what you posted makes it ok to dismiss the directions given.

I have dreams about twi...mostly of swinging by a roa to see if things have changed...hoping to find it safe to go back....searching vainly for anyone I knew.... In one dream we mounted a commando style mission and rescued mrs. W. One time I dreamed that I arrived on the wow field and realised that twi was evil...but was stuck because I had to finish my commitment to God....(this one was fun lol) God came to me and said just witness FOR me...help people get OUT of twi.....so the whole dream was about being God`s mole, and trying to help people see twi in it`s true light, without raising any alarm bells....lol

Very good point CW..... MJ, if the one forgiven is not required to repent and change first....they remain in sin....if they are not accountable...are allowed to blow off their transgressions without ever understanding the need to repent in order to be forgiven...they remain in darkness... probably not even aware of it...ever puzzled as to why their formulas and principles learned in twi fail them. However if forgiveness is withheld, they might see the necessity of change....maybe not, but the ball is in their court, according to Luke.

S`far as I can see not a single person that Geek has mentioned, has met the requirement for being granted forgiveness. What he is asking us to do would APPEAR to be in direct contradiction of what this particular scripture (luke 17:3) requires. When this is addressed, I will then consider that forgiveness can be at times, nothing more than something that I chose to do with my brain to make me feel a little better about something I can do nothing about. Operated as such, I think that it is detrimental to the one supposedly forgiven.

How does that address Luke 17:3 please? It isn`t up to me to determine whether it is genuine or not...(I think that is what examination of the fruit mentioned in galations is about though) It simply states that forgiveness is to be given WHEN they repent and ask....period.

Thanks Geek, glad that this wasn`t just a drive by posting...... Feelings and theories aside.... Can anyone address Luke 17:3, where we are instructed to forgive if if IF ... our brother repents?? I think that we are missing something vital if repentance is left out of the equation. I think that is a key to understanding why there was so much hurt done in twi...why it became so evil...folks weren`t taught to see the nececity of repentance or the need to change....forgiveness and grace were just assumed. They remained in their fleshly state.

If theres been domestic violence before, she`d better darn sure hope that the police find her before HE does. I imagine that this might cause things to escalate.

Oh...THATS right, I shouldda said that I would be *blessed* to serve....

Wow...NOW I understand the secret meaning of the scriptural reference *pressed down, shaken together and running over* ...why, don`tcha see???? God was talking about baking BROWNIES all of this time!! sniff, I just wish you all could see it in the original, kids....

5 years...man I am starting to feel old...

Ummm no, are we supposed to? Is that possible to love someone whom you have never met?

hee HEE, Mo invented a great new term ... Mogolotry: A practice whereby one`s chief function is to introduce bibliolotry in order to be able to skillfully manufacture (with the appearance of spirituality), any excuse needed to cover ones a-- to make outragious abuse appear acceptable and necessary, and to justify the sating of ones apetites at the followers expense! Welcome back girl!

Nope...knowledge of the word was paramount....mastery of scriptures was the key to spirituality. I think that was what stagnated my growth, was replacing God and Jesus with scripture. Really tricky, I had to just dump the bible for a long time in order to refocus my attention on God...that is when the great breakthoughs...the epiphanies and growth began again.... Slowly now, I am able to reintroduce scriptures in their proper context and function.... I know for me personally..... in hindsight, I can see just how idolotrous my focus was....rather than utelising them as a sign post or direction to life with God...scriptures and their mastery became my sustenance.....became what made me rightious...spiritual. I can`t explain it well....only that I recognise the idolotry that I once practiced....

No doubt watered G, no doubt.....The point was that in this silly movie, van wert was indicated as the location of the individual that was to be the next applicant for the barganing of their soul..... Would splain a lot ..... no??? I wonder if somebody one time affiliated with twi had a hand in this as some kind of inside joke.....lol It was just a wierd coincidence, something that we found humorous is all, no offense intended to the many upstanding residents of van wert ohio.

turn to number 34 ... ~~~~~~~~how fiiirrr rrrm our brooooow neees.....ye bakers of the looooord~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~thaaaaa brownie knows the way to the small in~testine...ALL we need is milk to foooooollow~~~~~~~~~ sing along with me now...everyone.....

You move your lips ...your tongue ...as you devour your brownie....Isn`t that wuuunderfull Lo shanta bette crocker la cinta.... Oops sorry, I see that one was already used.

Ok...this is so wierd...My family was watching a movie this week called *I was a teenaged faust*...according to my husband, it was a silly story about teenagers who sell their soul to the devil ..teens fight to get their souls back......no biggie....but my husband said the kicker came at the end ...when the movie was over.......the agent was musing to himself while the camera panned over a map of the united states....he was saying something to the effect of hmmmm now WHO can I trick into selling their soul......and Mark swears that the camera stopped dead, as if finding the next target....and zoomed in on the little town of VANWORT OHIO !!!!!! Coincidence that this town was the humble beginnings of twi`s infamous leader?? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Der be brownies with frosting, brownies with chocolate chips...brownies with nuts....

Wow JT, sniff... sniff, THAT was powerfull Dude...Kindda gets ya right here don`t it.......thumping chest....(though rather than emotion, it might be indigestion from to many ingested brownies that I`m a feeling ...urp)

Thankyou vertical, I am going to eat brownies with oakspear ...lol