rascal

So I am curious...is that cat analogy our carefully thought out and considered answere? How does this address the scriptures requiring that the offender to repent and ask before we are rquired to forgive?

Honestly Galen.... a loud resounding NO! Judging from the disgusted reaction of my spouse...I would say that we both find your presumption to be sickening. Contrary to your statement, most folks are NOT tempted sexually by children......and to make it appear as if it is normal, I find disturbing. Do you have any documentaion to back this up, or is it meerly an assumption on your part?

Agreed ex, saying how you feel...being allowed to voice questions finally, being able to consider anothers words is healing....For far too many years, it was... suck it up, shut up and don`t question the mog......

Damn hairy, that is scarey. Lessee, I know of one instance where the mother and step father were *counceled* to throw the rebellious teen daughter on the street...she had a problem with proper respect to the lc. (failure to follow such sage advice incidently, would result im m&a for the entire family) My own *counceling* recieved concerning the honoring commitment and breaking of vows...and what God required of a dulous. Only time I ever disobeyed a *recomendation* was when lcm went ballistic in a letter concerning my upcoming marriage, rather than entry into residence that fall....(um 18 years and 7 kids later, I am still glad I ignored that *counceling*)

Cat, honestly now, WHO threw the first dirty kitty litter? No your not a troll....lol, You have ONE person in 21 friggin pages of a thread drawing that paralell, and now your gonna raise your hackles n don THAT martyr suit??.....Come on, honestly, you have had plenty of folks trying to welcome you back....many even willing to overlook your earlier original slams against gspot n the *lower standards* that we posters enjoy here.... in vain, hoping that maybe we will see some of the brilliance and savy of our old dearly loved catcup....dunno seems to me that you stomped in here looking for a fight...too bad...guess maybe you found one or two willing to accomodate you. Folks generally recieve what they throw out around here... I think that if you had maintained any sembelence (sp?)of respect for the good people here... you wouldn`t have come in trouncing on toes....your whole demeanor communicates your disgust with sullying yourself with such riff raff....(ever see a cat walking across a dew covered lawn, disgustedly shaking it`s paws with every step?) Please consider, like it or not, we are on the same team.

Yeah John we had some pretty interesting discussions on the subject at the bible study in the methodist church mentioned....also are the dead alive....dinosaurs.. nothing was off limits. It was also discussed at length in our karate class bible study, which was attended by a diversity of people with a variety of different christian back grounds. Nobody ever felt the need to get defensive, and almost everybody had good points to make.

Lol .. thanks wafer, there IS compromise...The kiddoes and I allow mark his puter desk and corner of the room to keep in perfect order.....he has his one little corner of peace..of *decency and order* poor guy. I have told him repeatedly, that *the DAY that everything in our home is perfectly in order, and he returns from work to find nothing broken.... we will discover how tragically lonely we are, because it can only mean that the children have grown up and left us*

Ya know, to compare a feral cat with no understanding, one who inflicted pain due to misunderstanding and fear, to a serial adulterer, a rapist, and general all around scounderals, is mind boggeling. These were men who claimed to work for God and then assaulted, robbed and deeply hurt the people whom they promised to guide....some unto death. They with conscious malice, inflicted harm on God`s people, they did it because the sating of THEIR lusts was of more importance than their duty to the people placed in their care as ministers.....and YOU want to compare THAT ... the conscious desire to embrace evil, uncaring of the harm inflicted on inocent people, to a frightened feral cat with no understanding???? Geeze, we ARE on different planets.

Wafer, bless your heart, you would have a nervous breakdown at my house. One time, I had spent three FULL days scrubbing top to bottom, the yard was manicured to perfection....hubby came home and said nothing....this was with 6 small children....n I finally burst out that I thought I deserved a pat on the back for all of my hard work....n HE said ...in a half joking tone...*well it`s about damn time*. That did it, something snapped inside...all of the self impose bondage that Ihad imposed on myself through the years... I said to him, (and I still think that this might have been inspiration) *Well good, you can thank that baby and her syblings* pointing at the three month old in the bouncy seat. In answere to his questioning glance, I said * That baby has not been held or played with in three days...she was fed and changed and uncrimoniously plopped in her seat because Mom had to get the house up to snuff* Her brothers and sisters have been saddled with the responsibility of keeping her entertained, (which mattered little since Momma hasn`t been able to spare them any attention either except tp tear into them if they made any more work)* He looked at that sweet 3 month old and just melted....he mumbled that he never wanted the kiddoes neglected...n I told him, *I only have so many hours...I can spen them on keeping your house up to your standard ot I can raise our children* Anyway, that was the beginning of our freedom, I don`t look at the dishes in the sink, or the undone laundry, instead, I pat myself on the back for taking the kids fishing.... Whenever husband forgets himself and demands to know what I have done all week complaining that the house is a wreck, I tell him...I went to karate with the kids..visited a museum, had a picnic...in short, I made a lot of memories with our kids that they will never forget...what`d YOU do this week?

Hmmm ok, no address to the scriptures that state the offending brother is to repent first...I guess then that my answere to YOUR question is still not only no....but HE LL no. So next question, does that brand me as somehow lacking as a christian or in spirituality? Maybe not quite as good as some one else who piously espouses their forgiveness?

Beating a dead horse? I hate that phrase.... I think that is your perception cat... I have read the original posts and tried to explain repeatedly, an explanation which you chose to ignore.... If I DID chose to swing...you`d know it. I have changed, yeah....which is why I am now able to ask genuine questions, questions never answered in twi... seek answeres, instead of cowtowing and slobbery toe kissing, mortally afraid of straying from twi doctrine or offending some great spiritual leader.... thus being viewed as unspiritual....(I may be mistaken but I view this as possible growth) I am FREE to ask questions when I have them now ...it is exhilerating....if geek choses not to answere, no problem.....but hear this... I AM tired of having to answere to you for having asked HIM a question, which incidently was in ANSWERE to the question he research Geek asked in the FIRST darn place....ie *Are you ready?* my answere?... no and won`t be untill I know the answere to THIS question..... ...your perception of my post aside...he has generously offered to consider and provide an answere ...great....the question was genuine This is a discussion...not attack. It is really a shame that we cannot seem to get on the same page, I truly hate to argue.

All hail the benevolent dictator Herbal! Hey paw, sure glad that you put up with us..

I think that it is very mean...but NECESSARY! Child molesters themselves will tell you that they are never EVER *cured*. Our neighbor when I was growing up in a upper middle class neighborhood, lived their for decades....was a child molester...too bad nobody put up pics of him to warn the parents. It is mean and unfair, after you pay your debt....but there again....I guess ya just oughtta refrain from messing with the kids.... Nother thing, maybe when one considers the shame of having their pic up in public...and the whole world knowing your dirty little secret....it MIGHT just be enough to put the brakes on those unwholesom urges.

Wow...that is thought provoking....controlling that which they CAN control...ie environment, people, brings to mind whited sepulchers..ya know forever polishing the pretty shiney outside, that forever houses death and decay inside...makes me feel kind of sorry for em.

Nope cat, I never did accuse geek ...I have repeatedly attempted to explain your misinterpretation of what I wrote and have had to put up with your ever mounting tirade...your refusal at an attempt to understand. I was genuinly excited to see you around here again....like an old well loved friend returning for a visit.....s`why I attempted to overlook your earlier back handed comments..... I don`t know why you have so little regard for folks that you otherwise used to like,....my question to you was genuine as well....the only reason I asked about the off shoot is because I know a couple of other posters who after fellowshipping with this group for a year, who became supercilious and arrogant...no, not all....but some develope a real dislike for us.....kind of hurts my feelings, to have folks suddenly have no use for nor respect for me...I have to tell you though, it also raises alarm bells....please consider. Geek came accross as genuinely kind, and caring...thus my willingness to consider his pov ...but in order for me to accept what he propounded ....I honestly needed to have a question answered....( Geek even SAID it was a good question)...the days are passed when I accept someones suggestions blindly without discussing my misgivings are over....he has never acted like our need for answeres bothered him...why are you in such a lather? Unfortunatly Geeks busy life has intervened, ..nooooo problem, we have all enjoyed continuing to carry on a very interesting conversation without his imput....and you have to come back, what.. ten pages later and start throwing sand again?

Cat, you have sure become rude...Why? What has hardened you? Does it have something to do with the offshoot that you are part of? My questions were genuine, believe it or not...and directed at geek....you keep turning this into something it never was...an attack on Geek...it has nothing to do with you. As for your question..the people Geek mentioned were lcm, his henchmen and others involved in twi....

Freedom from being an anal obsesive compulsive freak came to me one day when I was enduring yet another brow beating for my inability to keep everything in order....(never mind the fact that I had had four childrn in under five years and was preggers yet again) Out of the blue, it dawned on me that neat sock drawers, clean fridge tops, perfectly manacured lawns did NOT prevent twi`s leadership at hq from being some of the evilest sob`s to walk the planet in recent memory. It dawned on me that their obsesive tidiness did NOT prevent some of the residents of hq from causing much hurt and damage to folks lives.... Dunno, it made me realise that it was ok to relax....being a slob will not affect my spirituality any more than excessive cleanliness affected those abiding at hq. It is ok to play with the babies instead of freaking out over the messes being made. I get to stuff when and if I want to.

Sky...oldies said that ALL not some but ALL religious religious groups were like twi, in that they did not allow questioning of leadership.....THAT is a misconception aquired while involved with twi ... and to type it out as a fact, is to lie about the great men and women that I have met that are not adverse to questions....nor do they punish you for not accepting their belief.

oldies, YOU said that being unable to question leaders was true of every religious body.....that is not common sense...that is a misconception due to prejudices aquired in twi. With alla your answeres you recieved...you also had to put up with a great deal of arrogance and meanness... I just wanted to let you know that there is healthy christian fellowship and growth outside of twi walls if you do not allow your bias to prevent you from seeking it out. I mentioned the methodist minister that has loved and supported my family through the years...even though there are years at a time I don`t set foot in her church.....in addition, our karate instructor was able to conduct a bible study that was productive for all members, though every one of us had different back grounds.....he was a leader, as were others in our group...school teachers, foot ball coaches...and none of them were to arrogant to ask questions of. I have come to believe that the lack of compassion and tollerance exhibited by many twi leaders, was a direct indication of their failings as real spiritual leaders.... Your statement was a direct affront to the really great ministers and leaders that I have met since leaving twi.....

Not so oldies, I have attended several denominations since leaving twi, and my questions have always been honestly considered and truthfully answered. I have yet to attend a church that didn`t wasn`t willing to listen and consider my pov on any doctrinal issue....nor have I been ostrasized when we had to politely agree to disagree. I have yet to have a body of christians attempt to excuse themselves or move on when we couldn`t agree doctrinally, on the contrary...in most cases, we politely listen and discuss, concidering each others pov, that is how healthy, mature christians operate oldies. There is a wonderfull methodist minister here at our local church...she has been nothing but gracious to our family...and you better believe I have been obnoxious through my years of twi recovery.....demanding answeres....pushing ...arrogant...for over ten years...when I attend and when I don`t....she has been consitantly compassionate and kind....and truthfully attempted to answere in full any questions...even accepted us into a bible study and let us propound twi stuff. The statement you made is a disservice to the many great ministers and bretheren that live their lives in service to God. Have you honestly experienced this since leaving twi.....or are you simply relying on leftover false assumptions aquired while in twi? Either case....please know that there are wonderfull ministers of God....most of them not tainted with sex scandals nor exibiting the cruelty our leaders did in twi....and very few demanding absolute loyalty, obediance or trust.

My anger over the mistreatment of people by reprehensible creeps who claimed to serve God does not make me miserable.... I do not understand why this is assumed. It is possible to dislike something intensly, and still not be miserable.....

I dunno, rather than view it as admirable to suffer such ignominious treatment ...and to then *forgive* the heartless bas turds .... to the point of actively protecting and defending....monsters that so casually destroyed your dreams...the dreams of one who only wanted to serve God.....I find it disturbing. I find your story heart breaking oldies, it makes me angry all over again that they could so casually destroy a child of God.....and then try to make sure that your bucks stayed in their coffers....sheeshe

fish bone brownies??..seafood brownies??? eyuck, sounds worse than dmillers poop brownies. I did make some chocolate biscuts once that the secret ingrediant was brownie mix used in liu of the sugar I forgot to bring to the first weinie roast....sadly, they weren`t that good with sausage gravey.... Wheres dmiller anyway...he hasn`t weighed in since he baked the first batch of brownies on this thread.

Ummm Steve...trust me, NOBODY wants to be stuck on a houseboat with my kid for the weekend;-)

Damn, just never mind, I am sorry that I said anything.