rascal

*stand up and fight the evil of mankind? not my job* MJ, evil triumphs when the good stand by and do nothing .... I don`t have a stand, only an unanswered question. Excathedra, silly, your OWN shoes will fit your feet, much nicer and are generally more comfortable....(watching my shoes carefully...lest she get any ideas)

As far as the spiritual battle, sigh...apparently, some are more willing to entertain the spirits than to stand and fight against the evil ... eh? Suppose that is why they recieve the consequences of their actions....one of them being, everyone discovering what scum bags they were when they viley they betrayed their ministry and their trust:-)

and you are to be congratulated, as I can certainly see that forgiveness in your every post, Dear....kindda gives me a warm feeling...sniff... right here....(thumping my chest)...

*not being charged* is certainly not equal to not guily....Lol, reread what I said, I wasn`t warping what you said, I was discussing vp, craig n the twi leaders ... and what MY opinion concerning their sins...and of those who WEREN`T angered by what they did.

Hmmm, I think repent has a little deeper meaning than simply *changing ones mind* lol If as you suggest, that *God knows their hearts AND they repent AND they ask God to forgive*...AND he does great! If *I* know their heart, AND that they have repented, AND that they ask ME to forgive....THEN like God, so will I ....untill then, it is not my place nor any of my business:-)

Socks, I have only ONE thing to say to you....*a soft answere turneth away wrath* Thanks guy :-)

Lol... you might have gotten a more serious response in the doctrinal section ... that is generally where the *more mature* folks hang out these days .....

Lol mj, do you think that God`s vengeance is gonna be worse on me for talking about what they did, or to them for DOING what they did? ...hmmmmm I`ll pay my dues when the time comes, I damn sure hope that they are going to answere for theirs.

Hey mj, anybody who can remember old vp n craig looking us straight in the eyes and piously exhorting us to *do* the word...to be doulos, to make the sacrifices....etc...be the dog soldiers....who paraded themselves as Godly men, proudly proclaiming their virtue......all the while knowing that behind our backs, they were raping our sisters, destroying reputations and lives when refused.......destroying people and families at will........anyone who DOESN`T get really angry, is goofey in my book. It would be my guess that the folks being discussed probably ....ed God off too....No worries though, I imagine that he will forgive them, *IF* they repent n *WHEN* they ask... that is the day that I will consider granting forgiveness myself.

Damn shaz....thats brilliant, I am sorry that I missed it before, sure glad that it got repeated here.

...this weeks sermon??? ....rofl.. p.s. thanks Fog:-) Maybe so Socks...guess I bristle (not at you) when being told I oughtta forgive...because so MANY times...(disclaimer... no catcup, I am NOT attributing these motives to geek) the people that have been pointing their finger in my face, visciously condemning me for my lack of forgiveness...are the SAME folks (further disclaimer .... no, not everyone here who espoused forgiving is in this catagory) who want us to shut up about the evil practiced by the leaders in twi.. It is a lot easier to remain in our safe little bubble, believing that we are oh so superior because of our accurate knowledge.....and that the little *incidents* incurred in twi, were the minor failings of dear brothers who stumbled and simply needing forgiveness.....than to have to deal with the brutal truth of being used, our lives coopted, our resources and youth squandered...and when those were all exhausted, simply tossed out like so much trash...and this by folks who`s every action brand them not only as being of the flesh, but wolves in sheeps clothing. I feel like those who are the most vociferous in wanting us to forgive and move on, do so with ulterior motive...ie so that we will just shut UP..... makes it ever so much easier to go on pretending that we were the greatest thing to the spiritual movement since sliced bread donnt`cha know.....I know, I know, that just MAYBE ... lol ... I am being a tad hyper sensative here .... but it FEELS like a subtle form of control all over again.....a way of attempting to stuff ugly things back in lock box. If we forgive we will shut up...I want the WORLD to know what these amoral creeps desperatly wanted kept quiet.....many times destroying lives in an effort to maintain their dirty little secrets. Maybe that is the consequences of living an amoral life style...maybe exposure of their true nature and spiritual degredation IS considered the vengeance of God........their *good* name forever immortalised in the annals of history as the calloused cruel abusers of the innocents that they were. Thus my question....It is not that I am unwilling to forgive, but simply BEFORE I ignore my instinct yet again....and do something that someone ELSE deems *best* I wanted to KNOW scripturally why to ignore the clear instruction concerning repentance and asking..... I suppose that this now, will *require* folks to forgive ME for being unforgiving......(though currently I have no intention of repenting, changing my behavior, nor asking)...lol

Wafer not, a lot of the horrendous details were on the child abuse thread started a month or two back. It is like a very very BAD night mare.

You are funny mj....are you upset because you are not the dominator? Oh well, I wish you well also, as alas, I find you incomprehensible...please in the future skip my posts if you find the innane pieces of my life so disgusting....because I seriously doubt that I will let you bully me into silence. P.s. I find it amusing that how I chose to spend the hours of MY day and the condition of MY fanny upsets you so....rofl

Oh well cat, I guess that we will have to understand that neither can comprehend the other.... too bad, but am glad that God cares about us in in spite of that. I suppose that we will each continue on the path we percieve that he has laid out for us......learning and growing. I wish you well on the course that you have charted for your journey...

Sure all of those verses say to forgive, but none of em negate the need of repentance FIRST....God doesn`t forgive us before we ask...even EVEN if we were to forgive every wrong ever committed, were we to not repent ourselves, and ask, God wouldn`t forgive us.....without repentance those verses are not applicable......

Thankyou for your civil clarification Galen, that scenario is quite a bit different than being *capable of child molestation*....imo But if a 12 year old is found attractive, is a 10 yr old, an 8 yr old? Where do you draw the line....this is where it gets disturbing. Girls, I have teens who do not understand that a guy might view them as they are dressing like whores, they do like to wear what the other kids wear, what is on the shelves at walmart.....does not mean they are looking for attention... I know that as a young girl, I was absolutely naieve concerning what a guy might find provocative....I have no idea what my alure was to the child molester next door was.....does that mean I was asking for it by how I dressed or how I walked? Did it prove to him that I wanted it because I accepted the wifes invitations to visit repeatedly??

MJ you are a bit ch, pure and simple, throwing that *victim* crap in cw`s face. Many of us here have first hand experience with this and all see that your premise brands you a fool as well.

Reread it..........read the sentances before 70x7.

CW, I imagine those who are repulsed by Galens opine.

Nor is it indicated that it is *best* for us.... It also backs up how scriptures say that forgiveness works between us n God...we repent, we ask, he forgives....anything else you guys add is speculation....which is fine if you feel like doing it personally .... but indicating that anyone ELSE oughtta be doin it for their own good, steps over the line into judgement and finger pointing.

Oh geeze wg, that is really REALLY sick. Wonder how many folks through the years followed her sage wisdom? You know that suggestions from leadrship constitued an order to the committed doulos. I don`t suppose Jesus`s instructions regarding the kiddoes held any water with her eh?

Why do you have to make this about you mj? The scripture being dismissed is the one that states that the offending brother is to be rebuked, and WHEN they ask for forgiveness, you are required to forgive .... nothing anyone here has addressed this scripture. We are all recovering from various assinine beliefs that we held while involved in twi....me included....I do not trust your pet theory, nor that of oldies, cat, geek , myself or anyone ELSE! Our opinions and beliefs have been indisputibly proven wrong in one form or another, since departing twi, Our opinions have been proven unreliable......therefor what you personally *think* or *feel* holds no interest to me...... it has nothing to do with like or dislike....

Steve, I would welcome clarification from Galen....I find it repulsive for him to intimate that ANY normal adult would tolerate, much less consider child molestation if only we were simply *honest*

Dunno Krys, it appears to me, as if couched in all of that *wisdome* ... Galen is saying that we are ALL capable of child molestation if we are simply honest with ourselves. Any *normal* person would answere his own query with...a not only no, but *HE LL NO!* but he says that *it more prudent NOT to answere? shiver I vehemently disagree with him on this, and demand to know his sources for such a statement.....otherwise it is merely his own disgusting opinion. Rather than respect, I am struck with revulsion....sorry

As you might have gathered before oldies, and mj, I do not give a fig about what any one of us currently believe ... that includes geek,... as due to participation in twi, we have all believed assinine stuff before now. What I WANT to know is, why valid scripture is being dismissed in favor of each persons own pet theories and poor analogies.