rascal

((((HCW)))) Thankyou sir, your outrage on our behalf means a lot....and I apreciate your substantiation of what I was eventually able to come to understand. I found out in later years that this leader was simply po`ed at their interim corpes assignment, apparently it wasn`t where they had believed/told God to send them....the only thing I can surmise now, that they probably were ready to take their displeasure out on someone.....seeing as the former bc had left the area only three months earlier with full confidence in me.....I had been taught though, that the leader always spoke for God and that we were to obey....when she said I was posessed, I was devastated....though completely unaware of how it had happened, I absolutely believe her venom and spew..... Rest assured, that though crushed to the point that I was unable to look at my self in the mirror for almost a year for the shame and self loathing that came from believing myself to be possessed......though there were no beleivers that could reach through the pain of self condemnation......(I was terrified that I would infect them with my evil, or that they would find out my dirty secret in my new area) I even seriously contemplated suicide because I did not want to live if I was posessed. I believe now, that God took care of me. It actually led to the implimentation of the most credible miracle that I have ever had the privelege to recieve. This is hard for me to relate, because though humbled that such extreme measures were implimented to get my attention...and minister to my wounded soul.....I wonder *why me?* ...it bothers me that others suffering (like your friend) was seemingly allowed to continue unabetted.......dunno anyway....(deep breath) here goes.... I believe now that something spectacularly extraordinary had to be pulled off in order to communicate through the pain......to impress upon me without a shadow of a doubt, that I wasn`t repulsive ....that I didn`t need to hide for shame at what I had so inexplicably become......that the bc`s opinion and perceptions were not necessarily God`s....Not only that....but in order for there to be absolutely NO room for doubt.....I was shown not not once, but twice AHEAD of time what was going to happen...It also was so outragious and unlikely, that I KNEW that I that my brain could never have concieved of such a thing.....on top of that....there was a photographer on the spot to take a picture of the event .....and then later sent me a picture .... one that I have kept for years as a reminder of who/what I am....someone worthey of a whole lot of effort to minister to my wounded soul.....after reading your earlier posts...I have wondered if you were that photogragher. Wierd huh? That though the circumstances led to one of the most devistating events in my life....also opened the door for the most fantasic *healing* and *I truly care about you* ..... ANyway, sorry for the derail hcw, this is your thread and I will edit this shortly.....I just wanted to thank you for your concern, and to tell you that the story has ended well.

Awwww damn (((vickles)))) I am so sorry, I went through a similarly devistating experience. ... being unjustly accused of possession by the ptb`s, not knowing HOW it had happened, not having any earthly idea of how to fix it......I simply wanted to die(and nearly did) rather than contaminate the body of Christ with my evil....not believing that there would be life for me outside of twi....I felt that death was inevitable.....I had no Alfa cat to pick me up. I knew there was a reason I liked that guy.

Well oldies, it is darn hard NOT to speak evil when describing the acts of evil individuals. I suppose if the individuals in question had lived the Godly lifestyle of men of the spirit....we would be discussing *Godly* things.... To bad vp and his buds didn`t behave in a manner that would inspire *positive* remarks.....truly sad....their fault however, not ours.

Agreed Dabobbida. Would you mind hcw? Your account gives the side that that poor girl never was able to tell....you are speaking for her, countering the lies told about why she was thrown out....about why she died. With Hcw`s permission...does anybody know how? Wordwolf maybe ?

Precisely David, great points. It was of monumental importance that I finally realised that God was not the one that was false.....rather the leaders/men...and as a result of their falseness...the doctrine that they had taught as God`s standard that failed. ...it wasn`t GOD who had betrayed my trust...it wasn`t me who wasn`t somehow measuring up spiritually .... Once this was understood, it opened the door to attempt to regain the trust/reconcilliation for/with God ... to reestablish communication....to begin afresh my journey towards healing.

Please don`t use THIS thread as a chance to once again jump on your soap box oldies. Please just this once, let someone tell their story as they intend, and memorialise their friend. Start a new thread if you must, just please, for once, show some respect. HCW, your account is riveting. I am so very sorry that your friend was hurt so greivously. My husband knew her as well, and is deeply moved by your account.

79/ al 79/80 Texarkana and Fayettevill Ark. as a wow (I guess that I must have met oldies there) 80/81 North Dakota (2 moves in city) in way homes 81/85 Al. two different way homes ran fellowships etc/app corpes 85/87 Hutchinson Ks, as a wow followed by a way home 87/89 Witchita Ks. At Lc`s request. 89/90 Salina Ks. 90/93 Moved back to Al (our first non leader recomended move)... and made the decision to leave twi. Bought a house in Tenn and have not moved in 13 years....whew never been anywhere this long. I have to say it has been great to put down roots, to be a productive, respected member in our community....lol My mother refuses to go to town with me any more because I can never get anything accomplished... every where we go...I am running into folks I know and *catching up* :-) I love being a part of things...no longer feeling like I am on the outside looking in....not feeling like an oustsider with an agenda anymore.

According to more than one local, vp was caught in a compromising position with his church secretary.... One guy came into chat several times, and said that ...his mom went to high school with vp, and it was her claim that he was *wild* even back then. Could THAT be why the local folks had NO use for vp? Could that be why there was rarely any *fruit from nk? Maybe they all knew things concerning vp`s character that we didn`t. I know that when he and Mrs. W got married, it was in secret cause they were both still in college...nobody knew for a year, if my memory serves me....looking back, it seems pretty sneaky to me. Why couldn`t they tell their families? I think that he was breaking/finding ways around rules for many many years before he ever began his *ministry* I never knew about the sex stuff untill ex and others started speaking up here....apparently that was only made known to those who could spiritually *handle* it. It came as no suprise that LCM was a pervert, but it was devistating to find out that our spiritual leader .... the one who`s insight and wisdom I had based my entire life and being on...was an amoral predatory abuser as well.

*comparativly mild closure* sheeshe what an abysmal lack of understanding you have concerning the depths of the pain and enormity of the evil practiced....what a foolish statement. It is about holding twi to the standard of the word, not to mention just plain decency. Being unwilling to apologise, or even acknowledge the hurt inflicted and damage wrought, only goes to show just how far leadership in twi STILL have their heads wedged up their bu tts.... Shoot, were they to have an honest change of heart...make an attempt to become Godly, they would fall on their knees and beg forgivness for the betrayal of those placed in their trust and safekeeping....and legal consequences be damned, your heart would move you to do the right thing....regardless. You trying to make it easy on em mike, will never help ....because without repentance and asking for it....our forgivness means precisely squat..... What you ask is unbiblical mike.....God requires us to repent and ask before forgivness is granted...never before...and why?

That baby will be 5 in april, believe it or not! lol

Maybe the guy shouldda thought about how much his marriage meant to him BEFORE he screwed up. Some mistakes are just too big to fix.

How much *brain storming* does it take to say *I am sorry, we were wrong*???

I was encountering majorly anal, cruel, a--wipe interim corpes as early as 1981. I don`t think it had much to do with when LCM took the helm. I figure that these folks were trained this way early on, but finally rose up in ranks to the point where they could commit hurt on a greater scale by early 90s. I think that those who obtained the results desired by hard a--ed tactics were the ones rewarded.... at least that was how it appeared to me. Those who were kind, who ministered to the people rather than cracked the whip in order to achieve the numbers, suffered the consequeces.

Bell, according to nk locals, you are correct. Apparantly, his former denomination just didn`t see eye to eye with him concerning this area....darn em

Agreed ....people need to know they aren`t alone. As *unpleasant* as some of the stories can be, they need to told and RE told as many times as necessary in order for folks to understand the entire picture of what twi was all about. It is essential in beginning the healing process. Thank you (((act2))

Sure looks like the back of his hand to me..... and this from one who`s still *walking in love* no less ;-) lol

Goodness (((Frankee))) I believe that I might have been mistaken when I intimated that you were anything of the sort....Lol I LIKE a guy with guts, not to mention a good sense of humor:-) Ask Raf, he and I can disagree vehemently at times, and yet I still maintain the utmost respect for him and his pov....so post away, your perspective is welcome and important here....never be shy about posting because of what others might/will think... I am not. (though there are those that wish I were lol:-)

Thanks HCW.....may I sit at this table and share a reconciliatory cup of coffee with you folks? Those verses you quoted say it all.........Your questions fit right in with some of the same hard questions that we all are trying to find the answeres to........trying to fit all of the crazy pieces of the puzzle together in order to understand the whole picture. Why didn`t I know? Where was God? What made me vulnerable? If God was there, why couldn`t he have prevented us from becoming prey for these predators? How do I make damn sure it never happens again?

*God is limited to the extent of the humans that work for him* ... good point thelema, and there in lies the quandry eh? Some of us have begun to wonder just exactly who wierwille WAS working for ... I`d say, viewing the fruit in his life, and the mass destruction left in the wake of his ministry, rather than God being limited by the good, wierwille certainly wasn`t limited in the damage he wrought.....I am not at all convinced anymore that it was God whom he was working for.

hcw, I kept my mouth shut untill now, ..... I can usually enjoy peoples perspectives of our times in twi, but when you want to cast aspersions on our sisters, in order to make vp`s transgresssions appear understandable, ie the comment about why the would do it knowing adultry was wrong...I have to speak up. p.s. I really like you as I believe that you are the person who did a great and Godly thing for me once,I will not go into it here, but I do want to say personally, thankyou, I have always wished for the oportunity to do so. My intention is not to attack you personally, but to question your callous dismissal of the betrayal of our dear trusting sisters) That being said, Do you REALLY think for one miniute that the women who found themselves in this position have ot agonized over this very question...why? That was a pretty insensitive thing to say....of COURSE they have.....use and betrayal never really go away....you just live it over and over, trying to figure out what you did to bring it on...... I can offer you a glimpse into their perspective however. It would never dawn on many of us at 17, 18, 19, to mistrust the man who introduced us to something as wholesom as the scriptures.....Maybe when the man who claimed that he could show us the way to God, if we would trust him....the man who claimed to be able to show us where we could find the answeres to ALL questions in life and Godliness .... says that he knows what you need to do for healing.....that adultry is not an issue because *all things are Godly* yadda yadda, and a miriad of other tortured sc riptures to make it appear as if what he requires is necessary.... you being naieve, young, and vulnerable ..... sometimes maybe your judgement is impaired.....when you are hurting, when you want to believe that someone can take away the pain and shame.....you will do foolish things like trust the minister who claims that he can help.....we put misgivings on the back burner, and make a decision to trust the individual who taught us of God....... one then finds themself instead of being ministered to...used. It may seem like a small affair to you buddy, but to those whose trust was betrayed....it was visciously destructive, one more kick in the teeth to souls who had dared hope just one more time that they could become whole, stop hurting. Instead of being ministered to by a man of God, to possibly be finally freed of the pain and self loathing.....to find out that yet again, they have been simply used. Used by a letcherous, dirty old man....used to sate his selfish lusts...how degrading, how shamefull, and in the end how incredibly destructive and uncaring by a man who claimed to want to minister to us in God`s name..... Oh, and some women DID say it was wrong and refused...guess what??? He didn`t take rejection well....ever wonder about those overnight dissapearances of women who suddenly became *posessed* and had to leave grounds immediatly? It was so dirty, so abusive, and so wrong..... Hcw, if it were your daughter that were the one that were betrayed, dreams and heart crushed as they were used to satisfy some lecherous old drunk masquerading as a man of God....had you viewed the soul crushing betrayal first hand.....maybe you would be more deeply offended....the fact that vpw had seduction of naive, broken teens down to a fine art, that he had a whole schpeal about how it was their duty and responsibility to God, that if they would just allow him the man of God he could *heal* them....and even worse.... taught this as behavior that was acceptable to his proteges.....well many of us find this heinous, and consider it a bit more serious than a man that has simply *sinned* I personally place it in the catagory of *wolf in sheeps clothing seeking whom he can devour* It sure wasn`t a blessing. When one ISN`T deeply offended by this man`s behavior......the manipulation and use of our dear sisters in Christ......the crushing of their trusting souls...I feel is probably still under the spell of this man....... Hcw, I think for you to question the motives of the naieve young women, their character ..... innocent girls who were callously used, rather than be offended with the dirty old drunk masquerading as a caring minister....the one whom was in charge, the one that required sexual submition of the girls, (the vulnerable children of God placed in his care....as his due......I find this to be insensative. Had the many of us seen this behavior, we might have recognised him for the self centered, manipulative (dare I say evil?) piece of work, he was ..... rather than hold him in the high regard and esteem of a Godly man, who selflessly devoted his life to ministering to people who were hungry and searching for God. He betrayed our trust, he betrayed God`s trust... So a lot of folks like you had a good time, so what if our sisters (and many brothers) had to pay the price behind the scenes for the benefits you/we enjoyed.....s`funny, I don`t see that as a good or Godly thing. In conclusion (should you have managed to persevere and read this far hee hee) I`d like to add my welcome, your posts are enlightening and fun to read and remember the good times with....just lay off of our sisters who were the victims of a master manipulator please.

I am enjoying exploring my interests, developing within my self the characteristics I desire. I have the horses I always dreamed of rescuing/raising/traing...the shepherds that I love to train...it is a goal to one day train a rescue dog and operate as a team for disasters. I thoroughly enjoy my karate classes and the competition of the tournaments....I never was athletic or won any awards before, but now my walls are full of them. These years are the most enjoyable of my entire life.....the freedom to persue personal interests, to be allowed to chose the direction my own life takes, are things that most people take for granted.... I am now indulging myself for the first time in my life and am very very apreciative of just what a blessing and privelege it is.

Twi was really good at helping one justify the perpetrating of evil John, and making it seem oh so logical and acceptable.... you have learned well grass hoppa (no offense to our own local dear GH). p.s. wouldn ya just love to be able to reach through this screen n clock me one to shut me up?? lol

So lets utilize our fists instead to get our message across to those danged love ones who have the nerve to irritate us.

and Jesus said, let every man woman and child be clocked as they so deserve..... and yay ye shall be the judge of when they shall have merrited such treatment, knowing this, that they have earned the wages of their sin.... for the unpardonable foolishness of not knowing when to shut up in your presence....selah Shoot too bad andrea didn`t have someone like you to smack her around when she needed it n make her straighten up.

Thanks for the heads up catcup.... we need warning about these pychos, who knows where they will stop on their mission....scarey