rascal

Guess this thread struck a chord (can anybody tell? .... lol) I could have summed up everything that I wanted to say with.... She doesn`t need to be paralysed by fear. She can be confident that she will have the strength and peace that she needs to make the really difficult choices....that God will not forsake her. My above account, though it happened many years after our departure from twi, was my first step outside the doors of my prison....though I was physically free from the entanglements of twi, I was still as tightly shackled mentally as ever. This was my first hesitant step outside of the doors of my cell.....once out, breathing the fresh clean air, tasting the exhilleration of freedom, I have never looked back...not even for a moment.

I want to share something intensly personal that might help your friend break through her self imposed prison.....because truly, it is only our beliefs that serve the bars of our prison. We had been out of twi a few years, but still fiercly held on to every teaching....desperatly wanting to prove that we were not evil or posessed by npt following lcm`s demands....as long as we were still *doing the word* we`d felt that we were still ok... Well I was trying to deal with my husbands escalating alcoholic behavior....as we had been taught....I spent years trying to be a good enough wife to make the husband happy...I didn`t understand alcoholism.... I knew that I was doing everything I had been taught, I was spending the first 30 min in the word andd praying every morning, completely submissive to every whim no matter how difficult or unreasonable....I tried desperatly to force the children to be good enough to make Daddy happy....it was sick..... One day as I was tearfully praying yet again for what seemed the millionth time ...I was blubbering telling God that my husband was so awfull.....couldn`t he please *fix* him so that he wasn`t so mean....my children and I were so miserable.....and this is wierd....but all of a sudden, the other asundry noise in the room kindda faded out and the only thing I *heard* was a voice inside my head ..... the wife is the guardian of the home..... I was so miserable...I just blubbered on....oh gee God...if hubby wasn`t sooooo mean....everything would be alright....and again the thought came..... I made the wife the guardian of the home..... well DAMN......it finally hit me what was happening.....and I said I know I know...still thinking it was all husbands fault because he is the *spiritual head* of our family and it had been do ingrained that I couldn`t go against what he said.....this time the *voice was deafening, not physically loud but really really firm.... Cathy....I made YOU the gardian of the home.... and I stopped dead.... I began to connect the dots....if I am the guardian of the home....that means I am to guard...to protect....against what?? ANYTHING that harms my family or dirupts the peace.....and then I paused....but God...it`s my hubby that is.....and then I knew...one of those jaw dropping mind blowing epiphanies....the husband was part of that *anything*. Oh my Gosh, I have never been more terrified in my life than when I knew that I was going to have to stand up for myself, my children, and our family. It was with trembeling knees I informed my husband that I now understood my responsibility before God was.... I told him that certain behaviors would no longer be acceptable and tolerated....and you know whiat??? this is the really wierd part.....Mark, my hubby didn`t have an argument.....he didn`t like it, but you know what? He recognized the truth, he realised there was something different in the woman standing peacefull in her confidence ... verses the cowering unsure wreck that I had been previously...he SAW that the spirit of God at work, because nothing else could change me as dramatically as that. I had the quiet peace that was needed when I went against his will for the first time, when I told him that he would moderate his drinking or lose his family....that I realised that the children were suffering. It was never easy, every way brain trick in the book was used, every trick in the alcoholics arsenal came into play through the next few years....but what was different was me. I knew what God required of me...and suddenly I wasn`t afraid anymore. Guess what? For the first time in our married life, my husband began to have some respect.....he even admitted after a while that it was MUCH better having a partner and no longer being *responsible* for the whole spiritual burden of the family. Now you may want to tag me as nuts or whatever...but there is no denying the change in the person I was....(my hubby still jokingly bemoans his lost Godhood status) There is no denying that our problems in our marriage had been insurmountable while being the woman I was.... I wish that you could print this out and give it to your friend....this was the key that finally opened the doors of my self imposed prison....I finally knew what it was that was required of me and though the prospect of going against the beliefs I had held my entire life was upsetting...ie spouse head of household...(though any daunting task, such as leaving twi can be substituited here) I had the strength and peace to bravely face down the worst that was thrown at me. That was probably 5 years ago, and it is an ongoing battle, but the family has healed....even if it hadn`t worked out, if husband had chosen alcohol, like your friends husband might chose twi.....It would have been ok....because I knew that I was finally fullfilling my responsibility as the guardian of the home, mother to my children, and finally and very importantly a wife worthey of my husbands admiration and respect. Though my problem was alcoholism, the principle is the samae for dealing with twi or anything else that destroys the peace of your household.... If your friend could just see, how vital she is....what her responsibility as a mother is....it would make the decisions and actions necessary goals that are acomplishable. She would no longer be paralysed by the fear of making God angry when she makes the necessary decisions.....she could procede confidence, with the peace of God ruling in her heart whether the choice is leave twi/stay/remain married/divorced...whatever tough choices are to be made...she will not have to be afraid.

Speaking as a sahm both in and out of twi, I can attest that it is very different while in twi.....it many times is a very unique type of hell..... You have been molded through years of teaching to be this spineless opinionless drudge....your only purpose on this earth is to serve your husband and raise his children and keep his home...... Any attempt at an activity or to assert yourself is regarded darkly and suspiciously. You try desperatly to be that virtuous women that we were taught to be.....obey the husband, keep your house to an insanely clean standard.....watch your heart break as your children are forced into the molds of little automatons.... The worse things get, the harder you pray/work the word/try to placate hubby.....deep inside you are sick, because it isn`t working....your life is hell, your children are miserable, your husband is forever angry....and this is a GOOD mariage....and somehow it is all your fault, because you KNOW that you are blowing it sprirtually somewhere or all of these spiritual truths and principles would work....they have too, because the alternative is unthinkable....ie you have spent your entire adult life believing something that was wrong.... Once the decision is made that you are hopelessly miserable, you STILL cannot leave....because without hubby`s blessing, God will not take care of you..... It is awfull......you really DO believe that there is no way out..... Out in the world you have support and understanding...in twi you have to hide your heartbreak or be regarded as unspiritual. If your husband is abusive or alcoholic....you can`t tell, because that casts you BOTH in the spiritually unsavory group. You are tormented, but you see no escape, because twi supposedly is the best that is out there, if you leave ...your children will get posessed or die..... I was told that if I ever went against my husbands explicit instructions, that no matter how right I was or wrong he was...God wouldn`t bless me, as a matter of fact I was playing with my childrens lives.

Applause aplause!!!! Thanks out n about, what an ordeal for you to share all of this, thankyou! So glad to read of your freedom. Cathy

Leaving ces is probably very healthy imo. Not because anything that this group does or does not teach, but because it is so often necessary to put oneself in a new environment to grow. Oldies, if we live our life as a person of integrety should, then when/if it is rolled out before everyone in public...one won`t have anything to be embarrassed about will they? Your life will bear the fruit for all to see what type of person you are.

What did you have in mind paw?

Welcome...Welcome... gonna need a pot of coffee at this table.

Yeah, what Belle said TOO! ...lol we truly ARE real people with REAL experiences, and Real credibility......people whom God cares every bit as much for as those *faithfull remnant* left in twi. There are very few people who experience the blessings of a life out of twi that would opt for a return to the frustration of dealing with the unpleasant leaders and unreasonable demands made by the organization, no matter HOW sweet the fellowship is locally....once out ....one finds that there is meaningfull fellowship and growth oportunities out here, WITHOUT the trauma of trying to measure up to the ever changing standards required in order to associate one`s self with twi.

mj, I think you make some very good points about offshoots, and why participation in them would suit folks....why some folks don`t feel they need em ... and that the thought of participation actually gives some folks the willies.

Does the ends justify the means? NO! Not by a long shot.

You bet ... what sky rider said! mdvaden....there are so many here who have seperate but astonishingly similar accounts of the abuse suffered at the hands of vpw and lcm. Some of it is even documented in a court of law..... You will eventually come to the place that you will have to decide that a) We who share our stories are all liars. b) We might be telling the truth, but probably deserved what happened anyway. c) We are telling the truth, but it doesn`t matter, as you personally recieved some good. d) We were abused by leaders who betrayed the trust that God bestowed. As you contemplate these points that we discuss, please consider that there might have been solid reasons that tens of thousands of us have been led away from twi.

No problem Galen. Posting on waydale was different because the administrator was involved in a law suit against twi. We tried to be very carefull about any info posted, as it was felt that it had to be able to be backed up in a court of law, in order to not adversly affect the host or the outcome. It is simply different here that is all.....I got a bit prickely at what I percieved to be swipes taken at the posters here and the our host. I adore you guys and this place. To indicate that that we indulge in some lower standard because we don`t fit someone elses notions of what we oughtta be as good li`l ex wayfers sometimes gets my hackles up....(if you didn`t notice) lol This place imo, and its patrons have been responsible for many joys and blessings, many people were able to make their decision to seek freedome from twi because of the info and support found here. I took the comments rather personally, probably shouldn`t have.

Thank you Oak dear, Galen for my post to make any sense whatsoever, you must read catcup`s previous post containing the remarks about the *higher standards* of Way dale verses gspot.

I am with the spouse that I married while involved in twi...does that count? Married 18 years, with 7 children.... over ten years out of twi....involved for ten and 15 years.

I had very bad things happen to me in twi 1. It is a myth that twi 1 was not harmfull. It was just better hidden.

The 180 I did after leaving twi almost 15 years ago, after 15 years of dedicated involvement is this..... I started serving God, rather than an organization. The doors have opened up for me to be those *hands and feet* of God. I am free to take care of whatever need crosses my path....many times to hear someone tearfully proclaim *[praise the lord, I have been praying ....but didn`t know if God would hear me* It puts chills down my spine when I think about being the instrument used by God to meet someones need or reafirm their faith in a loving Heavenly father. I see my life as an ongoing adventure with God as I grow and learn each new lesson presented. Go back?? Never, when I was in twi, though the fellowship with friends was wonderfull....the friends and activities I enjoy now make my twi experience pale in comparison. I think maybe that folks involved for many years with twi, tend to underestimate the quality of people and ability of God to continue our spiritual education.

People were hurt, people died by adherance to twi doctrine, and abuse from it`s top leaders. By supporting/participating in twi, it could be argued that one is turning a blind eye to the suffering of our brothers and sisters in Christ. That is where the parallell between twi and hitler is aplicable.

....and SOME people can`t seem to make their own point without taking a swipe at other posters....it is generally regarded as R.M.F.P.A.W. TWI ...(residual meanness from past association with twi). Once you know who THESE folks are lol, it is easier to cope with their unrelenting attacks on our veracity and understand their unreasonable need to defend evil at all cost....

We are here mdvaden, we are real flesh and blood people *present* behind these screens sharing our experiences....honest...lol. Many of us actually knew each other in twi, many have met in person since departure. Liars are usually readily apparent. No, not all involved in twi were evil........heck, just look at the wonderfull folks here..... even some former leaders! It takes a lot of courage to take an honest look at the lives of your brothers and sisters devistated by evil men, and yes vpw and lcm were two of the biggest villains. There are many of us here who have experienced the evil personally, there are those of us here who have had family members and loved ones damaged directly at the hands of these men. M.D. Vaden, you strike me as an honorable person, I understand that you believe that you are defending the *truth* and the *teachers* of the *truth*. What is hard is that you have to call so very many of us liars to do so.

Welcome!!!! Very interesting, talking about emotional growth being put on hold.....Man if THAT isn`t a great description of life in twi. The growth is tough and yet well worth the effort. I would never want to go back to being the vacuous (sp) empty person I was in those years.

Yeah I know, untill we were corpes, we were considered a *waste* of time. He passed this attitude on to others without a doubt..... Was just observing how short sighted that was of of him. Those who were not in the corpes were the back bone of the ministry, bringing friends and family to the classes, taking more classes, using our resources to keep the corpes running, the food on the tables and the roofs over the *worthey* ones heads. They couldn`t have had a corpes without wonderfull folks supporting them...... Yet he didn`t have the time to *waste* on them. What an arrogant pos. So, you folks who escaped unscathed, those of you who were a blessing to the people you ministered to, the true way corps (I will not misspell the name in this case). In your opinion, did your training facillitate your ability to minister to folks? What I am asking I guess is, were you a better minister after completring the program....or were you ministering to people before you ever went in? Is this why there was such discrepancies in the final result of completion of the program? When I read about the burdens placed on your shoulders, the obsticals overcome, the prejudices that they attempted to instill.....that you folks could remain tender and caring, maintain your integrety....is even more extrordinary. I express my apreciation as well for your efforts.

There were a lot of really decent folks who were persuaded that if they loved God, that the best way to serve him was to learn more about him in the corpes, Lot of good hearted folks tried to serve God but were actually hardened by their training. Many managed to retain their decency and honor. Gee Hiway, ole martindale didn`t want to talk to *non corpes types* weren`t worth his time or attention for sure....But hey, that sure never stopped the money from being good enough to sponsor those who were worthey, our homes from being good enough to host fellowships and run their classes in, to have a place for those anointed ones to stay in during light beares and relocation....sheeshe, I wonder what he would have done if everyone HAD been corpes and no one to support them, or coordinate when they completed the program. Damn, decades of selfless Christian service, and we were still unworthey to talk to the great one.

Harry, ex, and other.....it makes me think again.....What great good could have been accomplished, had our efforts to love people and serve God been channeled through a legitimate cause? All of that energy, prayers, money could have made an impact on this world....had it not been co-opted by men serving their own bellies. I agree some of the kindest, most caring , coolest people I have ever met in my life were corpes.... the most evil people I have ever had the misfortune to meet have been corpes as well.......go figure It ....es me off that our genuine efforts to serve God, our hearfelt efforts to help people, our money and our youth, and a significant chunk of our lives were squandered by those who claimed to know what God wanted/needed.

A person can break their marriage vows and abandon their spouse without ever physically leaving. I do not believe for one SECOND that God requires us to stay in a marriage with someone who is just *pretending* to a spouse. One who take the name of spouse but is unwilling to bestow love, or care, no concern. You are nothing more to them than a warm body to get a task accomplished. It is not always the one who files for divorce that is responsible for destroying the marriage. I cannot imagine ones earthly parent requiring us to remain in a hurtfull situation ....I do not believe that God would either.

O & A ...My heart breaks for what you have endured. I am so glad that you God saw you through the darkness...... I agree with Bell, thanks for sharing your story, it is healing to read....and remember.