rascal

Funny thing ...when I tried to report the theft to the proper authorities...the statute of limitations had run out........When I tried to warn my meighbors of the criminals in the area... ...believe it or not...there are people who are are actually upset with me for identifying the thieves....they seem to be furious with me for protesting the robbery, much more so than the actual perpetrators of the crime. It has even been my experience that the defenders of the criminals ... have on numerous occasions insisted that I am a liar.......that technically..it wasn`t REALLY a case of theft because I could have said *no*. When I see these same thieves asking other home owners for bricks....only if it is a few...I try to warn the unsuspecting owner of the danger....There are those that brand me as *bitter*... Sure sure, the thieves only *claim* to want just a FEW bricks this time....and they are so much *nicer* now ...don`tcha know...Never the less, I feel it is incumbent upon those who were stolen from to warn any possible future victims....this of course brands me as *negative* There are folks who enjoyed the activities and luncheons served in the mansion built from stolen materials....that think that because they ate a free lunch there that I have no business complaining...I must be lying...that the theft, IF it was a theft...(and they really don`t think so) was really ok after all.... There are those who KNOW where the building materials came from...know the price paid...that continue to enjoy the mansion built, and cover for the thieves. I am reminded that after all, I have a new house....what am I complaing about.... They want to know why on earth I just can`t *get over it*....and move on. I guess according to them, that it is my lot in life to be a *perpetual victim* sigh

Wow, that sure brings a good mind picture of what happened.... Cept, I`d like to alter it a bit...in MY story ... the thieves brazenly walked up first with their hands out asking me for a few bricks....convincing me that I NEEDED to give....and I convinced that it was the Godly thing to do...handed them a few bricks...what were just a few when I had so many? Daily, the thieves returned...always asking for just a few more bricks.....me freely giving...convinced by the thieves that they needed them more than I....before long they began bringing wheelbarrows to carry away whatthey asked and I, though puzzled at the ever growing need.... freely gave them...I even noticed that my house was becoming more and more structuraly unsound...but the thieves told me to ignore my *senses* that I was just being tricked into being stingy with my house....besides...by this point I was being told that I OWED them....Once in a while I would be sent on an important errand ...only to return and find my entire roof or windows missing.....after a while...it wasn`t even MY house anymore....so I didn`t bother to raise any objections when they started driving their pick up trucks in and removing timbers and plumbing. After a time...there was nothing left but rubble....and then mysteriously....the thieves didn`t want to come visit me anymore...I was not allowed to even visit them in the mansion that they built from my house and other stolen building materials. I brokenly started trying to rebuild my own home with the rubble that was left....I got two jobs and worked very very hard for many years in order to buy the new materials to replace those which were stolen. I have a new house now...it took many many years to build...but this one is a biggger stronger house... THIS one is surrounded by german shepherds on the outside and is well armed on the INSIDE to protect it from any futire theives....and yes, I have seen the thieves out in the street ...beckoning to me to come out to *fellowship* once again....no hard feelimgs...ya know?

Belle, you are right....Aaron definatly needed a boost. His 4 older brothers and sisters pick on him mercillessly....the 2 younger sisters will have nothing to do with that ole booooy. All of that fighting with the older brothers and sisters, and being the smallest in class for so long....I guess that he had to hone his skills outta a serious need for self preservation....lol I have a goal....to see em all earn their black belts ....(the youngest just started) dunno how long I can drive em by cracking the whip....lol it is a contest of wills each week.

Thanks guys, it was sure a lot of fun. Sharon, not to worry, I didn`t say all of mine LIKED karate.....lol most of em would MUCH rather stay at home and watch tv or play video games....they have even been known to deliberatly embarrass me in class....trying to get me to let them stay home....didn`t work So some of em hate me for makin em come....lol With so many, we had to chose an activity to do together....there is simply no way to get all of em to different ball team practices or scouting ...theatre etc. So they are stuck doing something mamma enjoys....and though they complain bitterly at times....they really do love it....they have made some great friends. I must admit it IS very hot and boring....poor things, but they have to do it for me, as I will feel better turning them lose in the world one day...knowing that they can protect themselves.

Agreed....I refused to *see* it. I honestly loved and believed .... I naievely assumed that everyones intentions were as pure. I don`t know if it was stupidity, neediness, youth...a desire to fight for something good..a combination of all of the above..I want to know what it was that made me vulnerable...I had several close friends that went to those first fellowships with me....what made me gullible to further endoctrination and them steer clear? It is important for me to figure out how and why in order to arm my children....what can I do to empower them to educate them so as to not fall prey to the next scam that comes along?

Wow sky, that sure describes our higher twi leaders....um what is pernicious ways anyway? Sounds like vp n lcm match the *false leaders* catagories to a *T* ...much more so than falling into the catagory of being a brother who *stumbled a little*. Out of curiosity, does the bible have any advice in dealing with theses guys?

I DID make that distinction oldies, married in 86 ....Andrea in 88 as well...but you don`t want to hear that. Ours were not the only stories that have been shared here about abuse recieved in twi 1.....

Agreed Shell, the pressures that I felt were due to twi teaching....Mark never said anything, he never had too, I was way to hard on myself.... We were just two people trying to live up to what we believed was a Godly standard. It has taken many years to realise that most of it was impossible and rediculous....it wasn`t what I expected out of him or he of me necessarily .....but of what we believed was a Godly standard learned in twi..... Andrea, you are rigt, it was the poor children and animals who suffered. I have to answere for the stupidity of trying to raise my children in the opressive manner dictated by twi.....for years even after leaving.....they were required to obey instantly, any imput from them was regarded as back talk and delt with swiftly....poor kiddoes, thankfully they are forgiving.

Dang Andrea, you just described my life....OMG, I cannot believe that he beat you for the groceries running out.....you bring back to memorty all of the years of intense fears of not measuring up....Realizing a week before my wedding that I had made a huge mistake.... not having the courage to stop the whole ordeal. I remember being so puzzled at the abrupt change in my husband to be`s behavior when we went from being great friends to engaged....all of a sudden, he was responsible to bring me up to snuff spiritually....every screw up on my part would reflect badly on him...He was to be my teacher....my corpes coordinator...in charge of my spiritual growth ....t.c. and spouse all rolled into one...poor guy now that I think of it, was a heavy load to bear. Is it any wonder that it took 10 years for me to percieve myself as a partner or equal in any way? Most of this stuff was simply attempting to live up to the standard that twi insisted was Godly..... I knew deep down inside that I was unworthey for the title *corpes* spouse and spent many years desperatly hiding my inadequacies and fears so as not to betray my husbands confidence ...I mean if he was wrong....if I screwed up or was found to be anything less than stellar in my conduct....in my mind I was forever going to brand him as spiritually inept. No, I never was physically beaten, my spouse has always been just been coldly disaproving....letting me know in no uncertain terms that I have greatly disgusted him. I am so sorry for what you went through ATF, as rough a road that it has been, most of the intentional cruelty for me seems to have been linked to his drinking after leaving more so than twi... (though twi teaching made it easy to justify himself) it simply takes years to sort through all of the crap that we learned in twi, to come to a place where we are healthy. I forget that many of my marriage troubles might have been unique as a corpes spouse.

Maybe it is just the folks I know, or a particular couple of groups....but I have seen more than once, folks after leaving twi....go from being kind and personable to arrogant and cold, within a year of active participation in an offshoot. This raises red flags for me. The antipathy that offshot participants seem to feel for folks here is another sign to me that something is not right....I thought that we left that arrogance and disdane for anyone not in our group crap with twi. It seems like they are even worse than when they were in twi.

Yup, if the activists want to repopulate the wolves I am one hundred percent in support, however ... I believe that they must reimburse the ranchers for damage done....just like any other individual... business or organization.

That isn`t a *wolf* thing....it is canine period. My Mom`s shepherd killed the neighbors dog one day....There have been local dogs that have been destroyed for killing cattle. One neighbors great dane nearly killed my friends dog ... before they dragged it away... Our neighbors dog killed our cat ..etc. I understand the frustration of the ranchers and the local people where the beagle was killed....but it is a canine thing period ... I don`t think that wolves as a whole need to be blamed.....they should be delt with on an indivual basis. These folks who have reintroduced the wolves ....need to raise the money to reimburse the rancher for stock killed if they don`t want the ranchers to retalliate. It is foolish to expect a wolf NOT to hunt and kill the easiest prey.

Can you say denile??? Geeze louise we aren`t TALKING about frigging gardening here...For petes SAKE....we are talking about some really destructive experiences....lives that were impacted negativly by participation in a viscious cult ... It is very hard to put a *happy* spin on the darkness endures when people who claimed to represent God... instead used their authority to destroy peoples lives without compunction.....damn RIGHT things are going to be a little *heavier* here than your run of the mill web site. Gardening???? we aren`t TALKING about planting frigging petunias..... To liken the suffering of your brothers and sisters, the spiritual and physical betrayal and even death of people....to *old laundry* indicates one really calloused individual....I`d even have to assign you to the *conscious seared with a hot iron* catagory. To liken us here to old dogs, well, all I have to say is, that it is a darn shame that you cannot see more than that....

Highway has described my life as well....Shell, may I have a tshirt? Let me tell you....I have to fight daily to not let myself fall back into that mindset.

This weekend was the anual championships for our style in karate. Proud mama that I am, May I brag about the kiddoes? Thankyou, don`t mind if I do ...lol My sweet Aaron is 8 years old and the school terror....he has had to do more push ups and sit ups than any other kid in the entire history of martial arts because of his rambunctiousness and misbehavior...lol Guess that all of that must have built up som muscles....lol because that little snot suprised us all and defeated three opponents to take FIRST place in his age division!! He thought he was in big trouble because he extended a kick into the chest just as the other poor little guy ran in....the little guy got the wind knocked out of him and was crying pretty hard...Aaron was stricken...trying desperatly to apologise...I saw the judge looking stern walk over and lean down and whisper something in Aaron`s ear...n I`m thinkin uh oh.. well that was the match point, and it was awarded to Aaron, well poor little guy trudged outta the ring and up to his sensei who is so stern looking ....Aarons head was hanging and he humbly apologised for not controlling his technique.......and his sensei proudly said...*Aaron...THAT was some great kicking*.......Aaron just beamed....He sounded really suprised at Aarons ability... I must admit....the way Aaron kept running around the ring outta reach of his opponents reach ....we`d yell at him to get in there and quit running away........lol....I found out later the little monster had come up with a strategy entirely on his own.....he would bide his time, moving away like he was scared....wait for the kid to get over confident and make a mistake and then be all over him......well I asked Aaron afterwards what the judge said n Aaron just lit up...n said he told me that the judge said to him that those were some darn nice kicks!!!! Well as if THAT wasn`t enough to make any momma`s heart proud, my 14 yr old defeated a classmate and won first in her age division!!! My 16 yr old won 2nd in her division, beat by her best friend and class mate. My poor Benji is a very small 12 yr old that had to fight huge 14 year old boys....he defeated one mountain of a boy but was unable to get enough points in his second match....that boy was bigger than Benji`s Daddy...whew, I was so proud. ....and last of all....THIS matronly old lady personally managed to fight off the youngsters (35+) for second place in the executive brown belt (nice word for old farts) division. I beat a woman that has defeated me at every tourney I have ever attended....I suppose the victory would have been sweet, but I found out that the poor woman had been doing chemo and radiation for 6 months....bless her heart she had just recieved her confirmation of her blood work and being now cancer free the week before....this was her celebration of life. Heck, I had no desire to compete against her....she had not been able to compete or workout during her battle...but shoot fire, as soon as she came after me...everything became automatic. Lemmee tell you, that sickness sure hadn`t done much to lessen the impact of her blows....whew. I landed all the way in the other ring flat on my back more than once from a well placed blow....lol That was fun too, because I realised that it didn`t *hurt* anymore. Dunno how to explain it....just that I some how have turned a corner from having to think through every single little nuance of each move.....it is now all becoming an automatic reaction. Everytime one of us would land a hard blow....we would slobber all over each other apologising n hugging ...lol I think the judges didn`t know what to make of these competetors that wanted to hug more n they wanted to fight...lol Bless her heart, she went from personal opponent to friend and inspiration for me in her fight back from cancer and into the ring... To let you know how cool the guys are that run our federation.....while I was standing in line to get our trophies enscribed, the kids were standing against the wall waiting.....I saw the brother of the president...a high ranking black belt himself, talking to my youngest. I went over just as he was telling her to stay put, that he`d be right back.....n when I asked the kids what was up....they said that Mr. Patterson asked the 4 yr old about the medal she was wearing...well when Zoreta replied that it wasn`t hers, that her sister was just letting her wear it...... He came back with a medal and presented it to her himself....lol What a guy, he made sure that everyone at the tourney had a good time, right on down to the smallest participant. He took a picture of her and is going to post it on the wado ryu web site. I will post the link when I see it. I got in my van to leave, only to find that I had left my lights on and the battery was dead..... Let me tell you, I began to ask for jumper cables, and even the folks who didn`t have any stopped what they were doing and started their own search for cables....it was so cool....like being part of a really big caring extended family....everyone looking out for one another even though we didn`t know each other from Adams house cat. Eventually of course we found a fellow that had cables and jumped our van and we were on the road.... As I reflect back on the joys of this weekend, I am struck with how good our life is.....thanks for letting me share our proud moment. Cathy

Agreed oen, that is how it should be....

I was married in 86....that was the standard required of spouse corpes even back then.... Oldies you will never intimidate me into shutting up because you don`t want to hear it........nobody ever will again.

Thankyou fortunate one.... I am so turned off by the whole abuse mess that we endured in the name of submission in and out of twi...I finally told my husband recently that I don`t think I want my daughters to even marry christian men. I know I know, that is a horrible thing to say and he was very upset with me...but think about it...I do not want my daughters to ever feel honor bound as a christian to be required to submit to someone just because of their gender..... Too many times I was forced to shut up and abide by my husbands choices. The frustration of having my imput constantly ignored, and watching our family suffer the consequences of foolish choices .....having to ask permission for everything....having to submit each request for money for groceries to the humiliation of having him decide if it was necessary....like I was some kind of child is enough to drive one mad.... I don`t do it anymore, but I can tell that my spouse can still be intensly disaproving of my *independance*.

DMiller, I didn`t get to go to aos or see the auditorium either, as I had to be in wow training when it was our regions turn to go. I couldn`t believe that an exception wouldn`t be made in the wows case....it`s not like we were allowed to miss training. Kindda left me cold too.

....shiver...

Oldies, look where those *answeres* you recieved have taken you. The best part of your life is behind you...forever stuck back in a time warp of the *good ole days* of twi. Even though you now read the bible....you have to consider that the answeres your recieved are not necessarily ones that are healthy for you....or have served you well in life in the long run.

There are so many things that have helped me move on.....I find that God seems to be able to work through any of the people/activities that I chose to indulge myself in. The key is find something you enjoy....I trained dogs for search and rescue for a while untill I had too many small babies to continue...the kids and I participated in local theatre doing musicals when they were small...when the theatre closed.....they all played baseball and softball...we have all been participating in karate for 3 1/2 years now and that has been fabulous for meeting great people, making new friends and redefining ourselves. Our newest course of adventure is parelli natural horsemanship....kiddoes and I are passionate about learning to comunicate better with our 1200 LB *BUNNIES* lol as Pat Parelli refers to our pets who are in reality ... nothing more than prey animals who are prone to flightfrom us *predators* at any miniute. The key is....pick something that you enjoy...have FUN!!! We have spent so many years taking life WAY too seriously. Sandwitched in between al of these activities have been volunteer work for the humane society, fund raisers etc.....church activities...developing a *band* for the kids to preform at old folks homes church services etc.... The more activities we expose ourselves to, the more oportunities for growth and change...I feel like my years in twi were so stagnant and repressing....I love the adventure I have embarked upon....the exhileration of being allowed to form myself into whatever person I want to be...... Lindy, your last paragraph reminded me of my Dad`s 2 rules for life that he abides by...... A) Don`t sweat the small stuff.... B) It`s ALL small stuff.... I am considering adopting them for my own...lol

The only reason one would believe that the ends justified the means pertaining to twi is to absolve themselves and their family members of scummy behavior. It`s that or deal with the fact that loved ones can just plain be sleazy.

Thank you oak. It wasn`t just the Moms that lost their identity. Sometimes I think it is just that we are more vocal here...lol. After so many years of molding myself into what twi thought I should be....denying my worth, denying my interests...all in the interest of being what twi termed a *Godly woman*....I guess that I am feeling a bit rebellious.... I was so afraid that if I voiced my concerns or objected to our treatment, that I would be branded a *contentuous woman*. If anyone became aware of my spiritual shortcomings.....it would reflect badly on my husband...it would mean that he as corpes had made an unwise choice....his very spirituality and leadership capabilities would be called into question.... See Mark never knew that I was not allowed to be myself....he never knew what I had been taught or why I was such a wimp....it was all bondage that I kept myself under because of twi teaching. Belle, if your friend could understand God`s love for her....that he doesn`t require her to be miserable in this life..... I hate for her to feel *honor bound* to stay in a situation that she is uncomfortable with. Maybe her husband is very nice and she doesn`t want to lose him and is willing to endure life in twi....that is her choice.....but it is not required. Whatever choice she makes....she will not be alone.

back atcha oak, please respond. Thanks guys.....really, I am humbled by the effort that was enacted to help me *hear* again. Dear oak brought up a very valid point with me however....there are bullies (wives) who missaplied the *guardian of the home* teaching....I must confess that I do not even know if it is biblical....but at the time, as a wafer ....it was a concept that I respected ...I could accept this and be enabled to become a strong person....unswayed by meanness, temper tantrums, intimidation........ Up to this point I had not been able to help him. I didn`t speak up, not because he was so horrid, but because I believed that God forbade it. I was precluded from helping him as I was ill equipped to deal with alcoholism with twi teaching.