rascal

Woah, copy right infringement...

Keep my damn handle OUTTA your posts ... you have proven repeatedly that you cannot be trusted to accuratly represent ANYONE elses pov.

Less hurt if they mastered the class?????? The wow I was speaking of was thrown out of twi LONG before she had a chance to do much mastery BY vp.... So your saying Mike, that at 17, she shouldda just *renewed* her mind and *done* the nasty old man in order to have the opportunity and privelege of continuing to have access to pfal, fellowship in God`s ministry, her family.....after all, it was such a pittance to pay...she really should have been wiser.

You bet ex 10 and such wonderfull folks`s company to enjoy while we put the various pieces together.... Each of us have pieces to add to this huge puzzle... sometimes the pieces other folks have to offer don`t appear to fit from the angle I view it.......but as we examine them, maybe turn them a little this way or that, or apply them to a different section...I find that they do indeed fit, and give us an ever growing clearer view of the whole picture.

I imagine that Jesus would be extremely disturbed to see you slapping his name on some vile mans work....teachings that led to the contradiction of everything that he DID deem important...It looks to me like you are the one bastardizing his name and everything that he came to accomplish.....

Lesseee ... adherance to pfal doctrine brought misery and poverty .... fellowshipping with darkness.... verses Life without the doctrine.. success, family, home, every desire of my heart, and being a valued and productive member of the community... Son people SEE the love of God in my walk...I don`t have to con em into taking some stupid class and obeying a bunch of arbitrary rules to introduce people to him :-) `N I don`t need YOU to tell me whether or not God is pleased with me....He is quite capable of making his pleasure known :-)

I haven`t been slapping anyone...lol you are the one ....ing on what Jesus said. He told us to Love God n Love yer neighbor... He didn`t say anything about requiring us to follow false prophets.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole loaf...in otherwords...It`s ALL crap to me.

Lol that sure is a slap in the face of all of the kindness and good that God has wrought in my life since twi.......HIS grace is sufficient for me! I don`t NEED to do all Jesus did cause HE did it all ready FOR me silly!

I don`t need anything pfal has to offer mike....Life has been more powerfull and abundant, not to mention enjoyable since ditching that crap.

I wouldn`t BE the woman that Dr. knew to be ...not for ANYTHING! His view of women was sick.

Nope clear as can be, God told us how to deduce what people really were...and told us to stay away from folks that did what wierwille did. It also says that folks like wierwille don`t have ANY inheritance in the kingdom of God....sure doesn`t sound like someone I`D wanna bet my life on.

Gosh dang, maybe if I mastered pfal, I TOO could lie, cheat, steal, and visciously and without compunction destroy folks lives like wierwille did! Wierwille doctrine makes it all ok.

That is a lie according to galations Mike....but it sounded mighty sincere :-)

Mike, scripturaly, wierwille`s actions brand him as a *man of the flesh* so my betis placed on wierwille as a false prophet and judging from the pain, suffering and destruction left in the wake of his ministry....that it sure as heck wasn`t God whisperin in his ear.

Thanks for clearing that up mike, I couldn`t figure out WHAT the hell had happened lol, nor figure out how to explain it. Just because you are unable to comprehend what is communicated that by no means can imply that ww`s posts lack merit, or do not command respect amongst others.

Mike, WW`s posts have much merit, to damn bad you cannot recieve the wisdom....I suspect that is what happens when ones mind is closed and the conscience seared....

Maybe you are right hcw, maybe he didn`t start out to take over the world...maybe his desire was genuine.... What I see though is that he was so involved in the mechanics, I dare even say works of achieving the spirituality that he saw and admired in others....that he never really did quite achieve that walk of the spirit. All of his studying, all of his searching, all of his prayers did not help him to become *of the spirit* they were just the mechanics he utilized to convince himself that he had discovered the right way.... His actions, his arrogance, still placed him squarely in the camp of *of the flesh* Even the stories you tell of how carefull he was of the *things* that the peoples abs had purchased, but yet on the other hand be so calloused, at times even visciously destructive with the dear souls that were placed in his care....leads me to think that it might not ever have been genuine with him. (Thus the speculation of false prophet...even in spite of his best efforts) He took damn good care of things, but yet was able to visciously use people without compunction untill their usefullness was exhausted...this causes me to believe that he didn`t quite understand God or spiritual priorities....ie love God love your neighbor... Hcw, I gotta ask you, honestly...as screwed up and mean as Chris G was....as much as he completely bought into EVERY bit of vp`s doctrine....as dark as the sins of his soul are....do you really think that what he presented to the bot`s could have been spiritually healthy? I am wondering because otherwise, your explanation is quite plausible...it would be nice to think that vp changed in the end.

Sunesis, I was one of those throw away kids....people tried to warn me....sigh but I just wanted so desperatly for it to be right and good, a noble force for good in the universe... I wanted to be a part of the spiritual battle, giving my all in order to help God dispel darkness...make a differance in the world.... To find out that this earnest youthfull desire, the unselfish giving of our lives and resources... was simply utilized to sate the bellies and lusts of the wicked just burns me up....

Ayup fear isn`t REALLY fear....it`s mental assent.... Error in twi doctrine isn`t REALLY error, just tvt.... Evil practiced by vp isn`t really evil, just the excess of the God given brains and brawn manifesting itself.... Mike, you have no truth, just qualifiers to faulty ideas that enable you to pretend that what you believe is Godly or spiritual.

That theory is so stupid. If fears kill, all of my children would have been abducted and murdered a long time ago and I would have died in child birth or have been afflicted with an incurable disease....my husband would have perished in some firey car wreck... The bad things that happen, are not results from fear....I wasn`t AFRAID that the horses would break into the feed and one die.... never even considered it ...but it happened last month...It wasn`t FEAR that killed that horse....rather poor fencing and clever ponies. I wasn`t AFRAID that I would find my old dog dead this week, never even considered it....It wasn`t FEAR that killed that dog....just old age.... The blessings I recieve are usually things that it never even occurs to me to want or *believe* for....the outragiously expensive tickets (200 bucks) to a horse training seminar for ten dollars....free lessons for the kids....safely getting across the Nickajack dam in the middle of a tire blow out at 65 mph....etc Old vp had to have SOMEONE to blame when his stupid theories didn`t pan out, so he found a convenient way to land the blame on the other person ....a lot more appealing than facing the fact that his was just plain WRONG! That doctrine was one of the most harmfull taught in twi imo.

Hcw, no doubt the people that you mentioned WERE decent..... it is their decency and character that disarmed folks` suspicions. I`ll gaurantee that they were not aware of vp`s shenanigans, or they wouldn`t have supported him. I think THAT is the secret to vp`s success, he utilized other folk`s ministries ....their good names and characters...their reputations of success... it was their love and decency we saw and were drawn to.

Amen sunesis....the most vulnerable.... Factor in kids that have been abused and neglected, youngsters whom turned to you in hope....deeply yerning for the answeres that you claim to provide in their troubled unstable lives...it is criminal and makes my blood boil.. Maybe this is so very personal because my sweet daughter is within a month or two of being the same age as that girl....She too is naieve and trusting....deeply sensative ... I understand the earnestness of wanting to do a good job and overwhelming need to be well thought of....the willingness to please. For vp and lcm....sex was no biggie, they did it all the time....for a youngster to be bullied into it and then discarded is devastating. To be ostracized for non compliance..... crushing. To carry it to the extreme of drugging the unsuspecting victim....and then have them spend the rest of their lives disgusted with themselves....unable to understand why they were weak...unconscionable. To prey on the vulnerability of a naieve teenager, to manipulate them through their fears, their deep desire to please and be accepted..... really really falls way beyond the pail of *shortcomings* It is downright destuctive and evil. These actions leave scars that may never heal.

In your summation of vp hcw, I think that you are probably right ... Probably all the rest of us all DO have skeletons and demons....however, I wonder if that may be the differance between true spirituality and counterfit christianity. The real folks overcome their shortcomings, the counterfit make excuses as to why they continue to indulge in, or else find ways to justify bad behavior. After dealing with different alcoholics all of these years, I have to wonder how much of his downfall was bad judgement due to his excessive drinking. Drunks are masters at being abusive sob`s and then blaming everyone else for their bad behavior.......they also make notoriously poor choices and then blame everyone else for their failures.....the ones I know tend to be extremely manipulative, not really giving a damn about anyone or anything else. He may have been just a man with shortcomings, but what has branded him as a complete scounderal is that he masqueraded and won our trust and support as God`s representative.... presenting himself as a man of character and integrety....He then utilized God and scriptures to sanction theft, abuse and cruelty :-( That in my opinion puts him in a whole other camp than your average human with frailities and shortcomings. It went beyond *giving in to lustiness* when he began Abusing those he was to nurture. I am thinking of a woman who wrote and told how he thoroughly destroyed her life at 17 .... a wow who was out there to move God`s word, who wanted to grow with God, but simply made the mistake of not complying with vp`s desires for sex on a motorcade visit. Within a couple of weeks she was declared posessed and thrown off of the wow field, destroying her credibility with all of her friends. Her Sister told me that when she inquired personally, vp further more looked this family member straight in the eye and lied, LIED warning them that the sister was posessed......breeding mistrust for decades....Her father wrote, saying that the tc`s even demanded that they not allow their OWN daughter to stay at their house 20 some odd years after the fact. He visciously did everything in his power to tear away EVERYTHING this girl had.... It takes a special kind of orneriness to deliberatly attempt to so utterly destroy a person utilizing your authority as a minister as your weapon....it is far worse than merely giving in to temptation now and then...it is dispicable. It actions like this that discredit him as my brother who had shortcomings and just needs forgivness and understanding....and moves him squarely into the camp of evil wolf in sheeps clothing, false prophet, a predator that needs to be avoided, and his ability to hurt destroyed if possible to prevent further carnage.

Mike, what we are getting *farther and farther* away from is the darkness endured during our twi days....Now that our lives are full and happy....there is no desire to return to the abuse.