rascal

Ummm that would be a no?

Let`s cut through the crap Mike, you never answered this question a few pages ago...what miracles and blessings can YOU attribute to your choice of direction spiritualy? Have you raised personally raised anyone from the dead? Have you walked on water? Have you a quiver full of children? Do you have material abundance? Seriously, I want to know why you feel that YOUR blessings are so superior to those God has chosen to bestow upon the rest of us who reject your theories?

Bell, all of these blessi .... ahem benefits... and he wants us to return to the days filled with darkness, fear, frustration, poverty, anxiety, intimidation, bullying, uncertainty....THEN will he declare us *blessed*

Poor Steve, if it will make you feel worthey again, and though I be a poor substitue for mike... I will not ignore your posts....

It doesn`t *sound* like it simply because you are unable to *hear* it. The blessings of God and purity of heart ... those things that are of the spirit it would appear, are lost upon you mike.

I AM blessed. But it comes from God, not your clumsy attempt at works.

Trust me, if *I* was going to *even the score* ...I`d do it with much more`n a computer key board..... I *reject* what YOU term as good because it is nothing more than a clumsy attempt to seduce people back into the bondage that God and we have fought so valiantly to free ourselves from. Your theories are nothing more than flowery lies ...bait used to conceal the snare.... I will continue to decry your herecies for exactly as long as you chose to spew them forth because ....*in vain is the snare set in the sight of the prey* It is our spiritual duty to do so.

Wierwille was as evil and MORE than the pharacees and saducees that Jesus so detested, reviled and called horrible names.. You gonna lay *quibbeling* over lesser sins at HIS feet???? He was furious with them for what they did to God`s people.... utilizing their leadership position to fascillitate great evil....wierwille did no better....JESUS called them horrible names, he exposed their hypocracy and denounced them thoroughly....we should do no less with the wolves of our day.

Your attempts to compare us and minimalize the evil of these vile men of the flesh offends me deeply. YOU are the one who mocks God by asserting that these wolves were in anyway remotely connected with him.

The score won`t be even untill those who have harmed pay for what they have done...in THIS life or the next.... Too bad wierwille died before he would have had to serve a little jail time for his illegal unethical activities...

Quoted from Mike...Every poster here shares the same human flaws as leaders of TWI. The main difference is that rarely did any of the posters here have the power to inflict those flaws on others. Bull **** Mike.... I have never EVER been tempted to drug or rape an indivdual for ANY reason, whether I had the power to do so or not. I have never EVER been tempted to destroy someones life and reputation for dissapointing me sexually.... I have NEVER been tempted to rob people in God`s name...even remotely... and lastly ...I have never ONCE been tempted to cover for a pedophile, and place them in a position to harm children yet again. We are not LIKE the false prophets in twi, we are NOT the same as those ravening wolves seeking whom the might devour... We do NOT share the same flaws as those people Mike, and I damn well resent being compared to them in ANY way fashion or shape. You just want to find a way to minimalize the evil and excuse the heinous actions of viscious evil people....nobody buys it.

Lol Cool Chef, WE had a ball....and what was fun was to be able to particippate and enjoy whole heartedly , without fear...it was kind of the first time since leaving twi that I had dared go against opinion...even my spouse (still very traditional in his twi beliefs at the time) was deeply comcerned...we had a ball anyway....took the camper down with another family that had a camper and spent the evening in the parking lot waiting for the festivities to begin....and then retiring to the campers clutching our copies of the book around 2 am for some exciting reading. As for our costumes...my daughter attatched a cardoard box to the back of an ornate picture frame.. cutting out the bottom and the part on the picture side. We then glued flowery material that looked like old fashion wall paper to all of the inside surface....she then did her hair up fancy and dressed and bejeweled herself, borrowed a pair of spectacles and became the fat lady moving picture that guarded the griffindor entrance....she won second place among hundreds of participants...everybody LOVED her.... My son spray painted a soccer ball with red paint to represent a quaffle, and donned my wrap around scarlet skirt around his shoulders as a cape grabbed a broom and became Oliver Wood the Griffindor Quidditch Captain...It seems to me that he won fourth. I had used a huge white nylon bag from work to manufacture a blast ended screwt costume, and had made two flobberworm costumes out of some torn up fish pillows for two of the younger children....seems to me the last child was decorated as a fresh caught cornish pixie. They all got their pictures in the paper and on the news....lol Funny thing is, some of the homeschool families got really self rightiously indignant with us for our participation...and though my children had been reading Harry Potter for years with no overt signes of evil.... these vigilant Mom`s had not noticed horns and tails up to this point though my children had been hp fans for two years....sigh ...allllll of a sudden, we were under suspicion as being evil, and my children were deemed TOO dangerous to play with by some of our friends...these are the same folks who raised their eyebows over our karate activities as well...Oh well, I guess cults and control come in many flavors

ME!!!!

My Dad did it last year at 70! He whitewater rafted and camped for several days and then made the 12 mile treck out....man he looked BEAT in the pics.... This guy was still running twice a week and even doing a marathon now n then, but I think this about licked him. On further investigation, I found out that when he reached the rim, he solemnly shook hands w/ my bro in law n promised to do it again in ten years.

Lol me TOO cool chef... My kids n I even went to the last hp book premiere at midnight in COSTUME! My kids won prizes even got in the paper....lol Soooo glad that we could enjoy it....there were some christians there picketing shouting at us that we were endangering our children....my kids were revolted...I told the children to not retaliate and to be NICE...as it wasn`t too long ago that their folks were behaving in the same obnoxious manner. They have trouble believing me.

Yeah, the thing that scares me the MOST is letting the kiddoes do stuff with their Dad whom still feels that his *believing* will protect them from all harm....sigh....making him not nearly cautious and vigilant enough to suit me.

Amen Cindy .... thanks CW, I think that worrying became the dirtiest of the four letter words in twi....ie FEAR! The path down which darkness would consume us. I think that the worry, or active concern for their safety is REALLY is what makes us vigillant and protective. I think that it is bred into us, natural....and yet here again twi was teaching us to ignore what God gave us to help us be good mothers by dismissing, verily shutting down that which helped us to protect our little ones... by deaming it as dangerous spiritually.

I worry 24/7 an there are 7 of the little sweeties :-) There is never a time where I am NOT worrying about a cut becoming infected, a cold turning into pneumonia, a car accident when they are traveling, abduction when they are out of my sight, drowning in the creek...etc Thankfully the *believing* teaching has been proven to be entirely in error. Further more the accidents that HAVE befallen or threatened my childrens health have been entirely unforseen incidents. My son getting his arm bitten and broken by the family dog....my husbands car wreck ten years ago....scewering my own foot on a hay fork, death of pets....none of the disasters that befell us were things that it even occured to me to worry about....yet the fears that I have obsessed over for the last decade remain entirely unsubstantiated.

((((song))) I am sorry. They were so wrong....The cruelty inflicted by their callous disregard of our children`s precious lives was inexcusable.

I encountered this with my animal activities....I ran a thriving fellowship of people that I had met through my horse and dog training activities... I was berated mercelesly for putting other things before God...yet it was these folks that were taking the classes...the only real growth outta alla the twigs in our area... They eventually won, convinced me to get rid of the critters, that sheriffs posse (mounted) volunteering at the animal shelter...and dog training were a distraction...and ran the people off .... My first face melting from a lc occured because I had a parakeet and hamster in my room....(I used to bring home the sick, broken wings, missing limbs etc...animals from the pet store that were to be euthanized and rehabilitate them and place them in homes) mind their cages were clean...there wasn`t a seed outta place....but it was still an indication of my lack of spirituality... I also had to get rid of my wonderfull collection of vintage sci fi that I dearly loved....

I think this might be why it is so hard to come to grips with twi experience....we don`t want to admit that instead of being so superior to the rest of christiandom....we really were quite foolish.

I think part of the appeal is....that we *knew* stuff that the rest of the world didn`t..... we were too damn smart to be fooled like the rest of the poor schmucks that bought into alla that foolishness. It makes us feel superior to be *in the know* ..I think a lot of twi was like that....we knew the word better than everyone.......were more spiritual than everyone else....had acess to the inner secrets...were better believers than the church goers.......did more for God then joe blow.......I think that it is about arrogance in it`d lowest common denominator.

RECALCITRANT SOB????? ROFLMAOPIMP! Damn it Mr. Hamm...now I gotta clean my puter screen from the coffee spew...

Yeah boy, Mr. Hamm....If Mike hasn`t walked on water or raised someone from the dead....he has no more stinkin power than those of us who`s blessings and abundance he blythly dismisses as being from Satan... Shoot he is all talk and finger pointing .... issuing empty threats and touting failed promises....same ole **** .... No thanks

Agreed Sunesis.... Leaving the baby behind has ALWAYS bothered me...that simply is not normal.....his first priority should have been his wife and children....you cannot ignore them in favor of a mission from God... Also the thing that impressed vp about the guy that led him to tongues enough to trust was the guys inexcusable rudeness to his poor wife...again, a lack of respect for a sister in christ.... I remember his son DW saying that his Dad was way too busy with the things of God to really have any kind of daily interaction....he said that as a boy, he had wished that it could have been someone ELSES Dad to teach.....said about the only really one on one time with his Dad growing up was a once a year hunting trip. When his wife objected to his affairs, he reputedly told her that she could either *like it or leave* His wife reputedly said the day of his funeral that he was a mean mean man.... These are not the shining endorsements of a man who understood the love of God....