rascal

I think that many women wait untill they are in their 50s and the children are grown .... feeling that they will have then dispatched their responsibilities...... Sometimes, one realises that they have spent an entire lifetime doing what everyone else wanted.....from having to follow their parents rules as children and teens and then entering marriage, with the spouse insisting on final say in most matters for many years....even the choices we finally DO start making have to be weighed according to impacton the family.... When my children are grown and I am in my mid fifties, freedome to be on my own will be quite enticing. Nobody to gripe and complain....nobody to squash ambitions, critisize my efforts....I can eat what I want, when I want, Shoot, maybe it takes 50 years for us to grow in confidence (ie get smart enough) to realise that we are capable, that our dreams are important, that our opinions have merit, and that we live in a country where we have the privledge to live and enjoy life as we see fit. We are no longer bound by social constraints to remain in a marriage where we are unhappy....

Hey, I resemble that remark ;-)

WTH, your post indicates a significant lack of understanding concerning the nature of goats and sheep.... to the point of being really funny. There isn`t ANY critter more hard headed ... that enjoys head bu tting everything in sight more than an old sheep....lol(I can say this having raised both). Truth be known, goats are quite a bit more intellegent, much cleaner, hardier, more fun, and more amenable, than an old hard headed sheep. Sheep STINK too! Sheep need constant supervision because they cannot look after themselves, where as a goat is much more adaptable and hardy.... You have aligned yourself with the sheep and all of their stench, without an honest understanding of goats and their fine attributes..... I suppose that could be an indication as well of your understanding of fellowship and keys to spiritual growth as well... Ya might want wanna research both topics a little more thoroughly, you might be suprised at what you discover while looking around with your head up, eyes wide open .... rather than head down eyes fixed to the ground, seeking whom you may bu tt heads with next :-) Just a thought....

So ya think this goes a little further than the minor shortcomings from an otherwise outstanding believer/leader ??? That aside from this one questionable theory we really CAN trust them to have our best interests at heart concerning the decisions for spiritual/physical lives??? I think it does indeed indicate sociopathic behavior.... I am at a loss to understand why anyone could give credence to ANY so called *truths* that these men presented ...given that this is but a sample of their doctrine.....

I understand your feelings ex, and agree.... My husband enjoyed the materials put out by cff for a while....and was deeply disturbed that I stubbornly eschewed anything that gave credence to twi teachings. We really believed that it was vital to remain *like minded* on EVERY thing.... both of us felt that maybe our *doctrinal* differences would spell the end of our marriage. He was pretty nasty about my abandoning the *truth* lol....low n behold, guess who has actually come around to my way of thinking....it just took some time and space. We have learned to allow each other to grow in the manner that each deems best....it is so nice not to have to follow Marks path ..... I am free to learn in the manner that suits me...and not feel guilty that it no longer involves intense scriptural studies. What is funny is that we end up on the same page eventually in spite of our vastly different aproaches.

Mr Hamm, I think that they are just plain vindictive. They no longer have the power to control or hurt us anymore....we don`t obey, nor quiver with fear in anticipation of their displeasure. I think that they are angry that their loss of control, and so want to eff us up any way that they can. They used intimidation to control us when we started getting fed up with their abuse of authority, when that didn`t work, they threatened us with consequences of no fellowship with the house hold, ie....posession and loss of God`s favor....their final tactic was to dangle the fear of loss of family and friends..... It is all about throwing what weight they have left around..... It is pure meanness....and the only tool they have left to vent their frustration over the loss of their power over our lives.....

Lol...I am getting a *late* start....enjoying my first cup at 6 am.

Sigh....when we are dealing with issues/ baggage... I just don`t know if it is twi related, growing up with family history of alcoholism past and present related or just plain mental illness... I just don`t know what to do to minimalise the colateral damage...ie the kids....how do I stop this from destroying yet another generation?

That IS sick chaz.... I remember something that my lc said when we told him that I was pregnant with our first....maybe he sensed that we were a little intimidated by our impending parenthood, n he asked, well what`s the matter, isn`t it a *keeper*? I thought at the time that this was a very odd way to refer to a fetus..... I never dreamed that this was indeed was how pregnancies were commonly viewed in twi.

(((chaz))) I hear what you are saying.... we go through it in our marriage as well. In our marriage, we are both ex way and need to analyse our thought processes constantly....and I hate to say it...but unlearn the *manipulative* processes we developed in twi. If it is ANY comfort at all, many spouses feel that abandonment when the children are small...it is all part of the growing process, part of the parenting process....learning to put the children first, and not resenting it. When they get a little older, there will be more time together,, this is spmething every family with small children face at one time or another.

Not a clue hiway, all of them left the state, married, changed names, etc. It didn`t help that the two of the very best friends (girl and guy), revealed that they were *gay* about the time I took pfal. THAT went over big....sigh

I envy you guys....I dumped all of my school friends when I became involved with twi....so have none of those life long friendships. The friends that I made in 15 years of association with twi, are of course gone. I am thankfull, as I do have family that I am catching up and rebonding with.....but there were almost 15 years of missed holidays, reunions, joint vacations, weddings funerals etc.....that cause me to still feel like a bit of an outsider. Have fun Groucho, I know that my husband really enjoyed meeting some of his old frat brothers a few years back.

Lol wordwolf, I have NO problem with newlywed couples making out.... No, I don`t place that in the same catagory as rape, adultery, molestation. Funny how rather than addressing issues presented, mike has to maligne me .... I guess he thinks that in doing so, he will discredit my posts.

Chalk up one more count against twi..... CM, It takes a long time to get over abuse, be it physical, mental, spiritual.....some never heal, the damage wrought is irreperable....... As with any other form of abuse, most whom have endured the betrayal, have difficulty trusting period, be it God or man, anyone claiming to represent truth. Our innocence is the casualty of the betrayal by those who claimed to have the *truth* Our trust in God is shattered, because we are left wondering how on earth a caring God could have allowed this to happen to people who meerly wanted to know him.

Wrong, wrong WRONG!!!!!! What wierwille TAUGHT was that what David did to URIAH was wrong....what David did to Bathsheba, wierwille had no problem with....thus the *all the women in the kingdom belong to the king* teaching..... You gonna quote wierwille like gospel, then you damn well better get his teaching straight..... It ain`t MY mind that is in the gutter, it`s the sleazeball who was raping our sisters while teaching this little gem who was living in the gutter....while his *mind* was full of the scripture you love to quote.....it is HE whom you should be offended with....

ALL of the kjv that grads needed were in contained in pfal??? THAT makes it very convenient to sin without concience...cover for other peoples sin ....how to justify the evil when caught and confronted....Why just ignore the verses that cramp your style! How very subtle, yet effective....you have the legitimacy of scripture that have been respected for millenia, yet you are able to practice whatever evil suits your fancy....BRILLIANT!

That you can deny something as important as the return of Jesus Christ....try to minimalize it, attempt to make it mean that instead, we have to *meet* him in some stupid book is just plain assinine. Step outside of your books mike, you won`t find God, Jesus or spiritual enlightenment in them....just confusing formulas and murkey preceptions.

My family is from lansing, we spent all of our summers at a remote cabin in the U.P. It is on a wonderfull lake where I spent my summers catching perch, bass n great northern Pike....picking blue berries, exploring the woods.... We saw bear and deer, lot of porcupines, raccoons... There was no electricity, no telephones, we communicated with other folks on the lake with our cb radios... We heated with fuel oil, and used gas lights and stove. Though in recent years, we have aquired electricity, running water and a phone, believe it or not we STILL use the out house that my great grandpa built almost a hundred years ago when it was just a trappers camp, though of course it IS a two seater and as such quite upscale...hee hee.

Yeah, but the FISHING is great, and the scenery around the great lakes beautifull. Our cabin is in the up in the grand marais area. The white sand beaches, hunting for aggates, trout fishing, the wildlife, all sweet memories of my childhood growing up there.

We have a cabin in michigan.....gorgeous

Now the OKOEE in east tennessee is the place if you want to do some fantastic whitewater rafting...beautifull beautifull.

If that is all you want to talk about then you are deliberatly ignoring the instructions God gave us in the scripture concerning who to trust. I paid the price for that once....never again

Mike, I want to know why I should deny the blessings and prosperity that God has chosen to bestow upon us as not good enough? My question is not one of entrapment, but meerly a simple request....What have YOU got that is any better than what we have been showered with?

Lol Bell, sounds immenantly more profitable.