rascal

Yeah, HCW, I think that it is a lot of the same thought processes. Many of us wait untill the children are raised to finally act out on these thoughts that we have been considering throughout our forties. We feel then as if we have completed our task and it is *our* time. I think that sometimes we get to the point that we prefer the idea of a *dry morsel in a quiet roof top* to living with a *contentuous spouse*....(Be it husband or wife) Even if the spouse is an outstanding person, sometimes after a lifetime of carrying the load of dishes, laundry, cooking, cleaning, child rearing....having to make every single decision.... be it what to fix for dinner, to where you live, what brand of laundry soap to chose, what kind of movies and entertainment......etc. in light of what is the most beneficial to the whole family, putting aside personal needs and preferences....we are ready to just take care for ourselves for a change. I think that smart people spot this early and make efforts to take care of each other so they aren`t unduly burdened and burned out...be it the husband with his job or the wife with the family responsibilities.

Gosh John that sounds so much like twi....you know it seems pretty silly that they would think folks would give any credence to that threat....it didn`t happen when we left twi.....why would one suppose that the same threat would hold any water when issued from THEIR group??? I mean aren`t we living proof that twi was wrong about what would happen if left? Lol kind of funny that they believe it themselves, or believe that folks would stay out put fearing a bu tt kicking if they left.

Raf, I wanted to tell you that I really have apreciated you posting all of these storm tracker thingees.... It is really cool to watch their track and increase or decrease in intensity.

Vickles, I don`t think there IS such a critter. My husband is a successfull contractor....but if he were to raise his rates in order to have even the cheapest of health insurance...he would have to charge his customers a full THREE times what he charges now....and the insurance just would not be that good. We pay out of pocket for everything.... If you have good insurance....I`d think long and hard before I gave it up.

It takes a miniute to download the first time, but it is WELL worth it. It is very fast after you get it downloaded.

Have you guys checked out jkrowling.com? It is the authors official website, it is really clever, set up to look like her desk...you click on different objects to find out a lot of fascinating information....... the rumors are contained in a folded tabloid ...clicking on the coffee mug will bring up extras for characters and sub plots.....a diary, a planner, a news paper ... It is the only *official* hp web site that has her sanction. There is a lot of extra info on the characters...dean thomas, crookshanks, gilderoy, the weasly family, theodor knott.... etc....characters she had to edit their subplots due to editors....etc. She dispels rumors answeres most commonly asked questions...it has her biograghy ...etc. It is a real hoot. I guess I`m gonna re read the second book to try to catch that clue....she also states that many hidden clues of where the story will eventually go....is contained in book two.

Thanks Cool chef, ...thankyou for understanding......You help me to realise that even though I am so deeply disgusted with twi, and heartily ashamed that I was so foolish...deeply angered at being manipulated and used........it still doesn`t change what that silly little pin represented to me. I think back and realise that it represented a willingness to set aside all personal goals and gain ... to devote an entire year of our lives in service to God, a gift to God in earnest hopes of accomplishing some small bit of good....a selflessness of heart... a willingness to take a part in the spiritual battle and attempt to be a force for good in this world....a spark of brightness in the dark. We stayed through the troubles, the dissolusionment, the many times cruel treatment....the embarassment of not being well recieved...endured at times intense privation....missed family events.....but stayed faithfull because we thought that this was what God needed.... The pin represented the selflessness of a pure heart. Sure it was stupid....sure we were naieve.....so what if they snickered behind our backs at our gullibility, sso what if they marveled at what we would endure for a silly little piece of metal....martindale would never have understood what it took to even make the commitment...much less survive past the first little bump or two in the road...face it, from the beginning, he was always a bit of a privledged character in twi. I still can`t quite bring myself to throw it away with all of the rest of my twi junk.

Very good points (((Dave)) and presented very diplomatically...lol thank you :-)

He obviously had no respect for what that pin stood for, or those who wore them.

So THAT is how you tell the sheep from the goats...so cool....makes all the sense in the world, thanks cm!

I`ll bet that sob canceled the wow program and eliminated wearing the wow pin because he was jealous.... It wasn`t something that he ever did....that pin was a sign of status that he hadn`t earned....so he had to negate it`s value. He was that way about all of the things that made the ministry a happy place to be...the roa, spontanious twigs ....inspired teachings....talented artists....I think that he was jealous of anyone that could do things better than he...so he negated their value and dismissed them. What a loser.

CM, trust me, goats follow their shepherd more readily than the sheep....that is why you need a couple of dogs to keep the sheep in order....goats follow their leader..... Goats are more alert .... the sheep are the ones that are blindsided. They are both the property of the shepherd and highly valued for what they provide. The shepherd needs the meat, milk and skins, of the goat....they need the wool, meat and skins of the sheep....face it according to scripture we are no more than self duplicating consumable products. Anybody for some goat stew or mutton?

I don`t like this analogy anyway, who wants to compare themselves to a stinky stubborn mindless eating machine who is too damn stupid to survive without constant guidance.... who`s sole purpose on this planet is to produce wool, meat, and bear aditional little stinky eating machines, thereby enriching their shepherd, who cares for them, and who puts up with their nasty selves solely for what they can provide for him, and only keeps em around ONLY as long as they are usefull and producing.....(gee reminds me of our treatment and value in twi) Quite a far cry from being joint heirs and ambassadors for Christ.....the beloved children of a loving heavenly father....lol

Couldn`t wear my wow pin??? I`d a freaked....we worked so damned hard to earn those stupid things n then to have em AND our efforts declared *old wine skins* ??? what a total *screw you* .. I was really proud of mine and what I thought it stood for. I suppose it was the same with peoples corpes status....

This silly analogy aside, it seems to me that you, WTH, feel justified scripturally,indeed noble in your mistreatment of your brothers and sisters in Christ. Do you REALLY think that being a bully over doctrinal issues makes you the shepherd/God/Daddy`s favorite? There IS that little admonition by Jesus, *love God and Love your neighbor*....as being our primary responsibilities. I think that ones *love of the *truth* shouldn`t be used as an excuse to ignore/obliterate the responsibility of the second great commandment given by the shepherd himself:-)

I hear ya Bramble, now that they are older, my kids and spouse are very helpful now. I no longer feel responsible for the entire house....they want company, sleep overs, to go to sleep overs...a trip to town to get their co2 cartridges filled?.....well it IS my time and gas involved.... My guys typically say, *Mom...what do you need to have done for this to happen* be it a ride to town, a friends over, etc. They work hard and earn their own money, they are great kids, and the spouse is great about watching me now, trying to slow me down before I burn out, sending me out for fun, when he see`s things getting to me.... Once in a while the frustration raises to the point of tears and dish slamming....lol, we have learned to try to take care of each other BEFORE it gets to that point. I think that we are learning to take care of each other....I know that it is now a two way street.....that I am not responsible for everyone elses well being....and yes, yes I did indeed have to become very specific reikilady.

Lol.... there is a world of difference between Jesus` analogy of sheep and their need for the protection and guidance of the shepherd verses your analogy of a nasty critter who likes to bu tt heads with friend and foe alike at the drop of a hat.... As I understand it, goats are quite versatile, and as highly value by the shepherd as their sheep counter parts.... Every member of the flock is prized..... Contrary to being pleased with a bully, shepherds tend to be annoyed with the animals be they sheep or goat that insist on being quarrelsom, whom constantly bully and harass the other members of the flock....they are the ones that generally end up in the stew pot:-) Consider also, that like the ornery old ram, one might be so blinded by their quarrelsom nature, as to be totally oblivious to the damage that one inflicts on themself and the rest of the flock, much to the annoyance of the shepherd...... Maybe the shepherd has need of, and even apreciates the qualities of each individual member of his flocks...it certainly isn`t up to the ornery old ram to decide who has merit....count the shepherd to sort em all out in the end.

Sorry guys, many of you ARE wonderfull, maybe it is a mid life thing.....but I just know that I woke up one day to discover to my dismay, that I was designated *drudge* for eight other able bodied people. I don`t LIKE cooking , cleaning, laundry etc...for myself alone much less a bunch of mess makers...and was deeply disturbed to realize that it was my role for the next 20 years.........lol. Thank goodness they all finally started helping and lightened the load somewhat...I don`t even worry about the house any more....if they want it done, or anything outta me, they damn well better pick a job or room and get started....lol.... Poor spouse, as a neat freak, former *everything in it`s place and decent and order or we will surely get posessed* type of corpes guy....has had to make some major adjustments....lol. but I know women who don`t recieve any help, and just get tired of it. It truly is a lot more *fun* to have a job, get out and interact with people, have the respect and encouragement of your peers for a job well done. The best you are likely to get at home is..(and I speak from experience) *it`s about damned time* Most of the time you spend your day cleaning up messes OTHER peopel make, only to have them come home and wordlessly devour the dinner you spent a couple of hours on, without thanks, many times people complaining because it isn`t their favorite, only to have them retire and sit on their fannies watching tv while you are in the kitchen on the other side of the house alone for another hour doing dishes.... You rarely get any thanks, no apreciation for the clean clothes on their backs....etc. You never get any raises or promotions, just bu tt chewings for going over budget....etc. It is a bleak existance, but you stick to it day after day, and when you get the final child raised and out of the house....it is now permissable in this day and time to decide that after 20 years of being cook, maid, dishwasher and laundress.....that you are ready to hang up your apron. There is something enormously fulfilling about making money, being deemed a sucess, having people treat you with dignity and respect....to be simply be apreciated and acknowledged for a job well done....sigh It is very exciting to explore new avenues of education, and after a life time of hard work.... Some mates can accept that and be supportive, some feel threatened and try to discourage these persuits. I am not saying that we are right, I am not saying that you guys deserve this in any way whatsoever.... I am not advocating whether to divorce or stay...whether it is right or wrong.....I am simply presenting some of the contributing factors to the mindset of myself and some of my friends in this age range and why divorce at 50 would be viewed as attractive.

(((George)) There is always the other side of the coin, I am sorry. No, it is not fair to you guys who try hard, only to have us up n change our minds and direction mid life. The people in my life that I was referring to, were in very different situations all together. I was simply relating why my aunt left after 6 children and 30 some years of mariage, my friend down the road after 20 odd yrs n so forth.....trying to relate what might be some of the contributing factors.

Another reason that hits a little closer to home....It may take YEARS to overcome early conditioning like we recieved in twi. The lady I referred to earlier had been in a church that had taught a lot like we were. Our primary responsibility being service to the man, and God expecting us to honor our vows, and requiring us to submit to him no matter how difficult and dangerous it became for us and our children. As virtuous women, if we prayed hard enough, were unstinting in our service, ever watchfull for ways to take better care of our men, God would have to honor our hearts and commitments. The fact that wwe might have been dealing with alcoholism, mental illness, or abuse had no factor in it....somehow, it all boiled down to be a shortcoming on our parts. If we ever divorced, it was because we had failed in one of these areas. It took me many years to learn to stand up for myself.

Oh, n welcome to greasespot!

Wow great questions, unbreakable.... I dunno, it`s kindda like the question.... Were we crazy to get involved in twi to begin with, or did involvment in twi DRIVE us crazy? lol I met some great people that honestly came through the program unscathed....many of them posters here. Personally, I think that the corpes created a scenario where the nastiest most heartless bullies were the ones who succeded and were able to ascend up the hierarchy. It was either become a hard nosed foot hole or be assigned to some obscure little fellowship far away from hq.

Agreed Vickles, we are in a new era where there is no shame to divorce. We are no longer required to stay in a bad marriage and just keep a *stiff upper lip*. But on the other hand, I feel that it behooves me to try to provide the most wholesom environment for my children to grow up in....and saying that, I feel that is not my right to remove them from the daily presence of their loving father, simply because I would relish my freedom....thus the reason that I think so many wait untill the children are grown before indulging in their own interests and preferences. You are correct, many spouses DO take care of their spouses and encourage their persuits....but I know others who view any attempt at a hobby or job or activity outside of the home as something that is simply a distraction from their responsibilities....and they deeply resent it. For goodness sake, I knew a lady in her late 40s that wasn`t allowed by her husband to have a damned dog....40 damned years old and she couldn`t have a friggin dog, or anything else ....I watched her wait on her husband and 18 yr old daughter hand and foot....they expected it, believed it was their due....I was so damned glad when she finally left. Course the spouse and daughter trashed her mercillessly as a vow breaking sinning heathen. They were the staunchest of Christians...it blew their minds when one day she finally decided that she just wouldn`t be *bossed* any more.

It is your privelege to believe that Allen, honest it is...but as long as you do...please consider this....are you truly likely to even be aware of what is really out here or the quality of what is available with that mindset? Consider that we believe that we had the only *truth* because evil perverted men who ravaged the body of Christ told us that they were the only ones that had it, and not to bother looking elsewhere? You simply cannot trust a man that would rape your sister in Christ one miniute and then research/teach scriptures the next....according to scripture, their pov isn`t to be trusted, and we are to stay away from them. Are you really likely to recognise healthy doctrine if you hold exclusivly to teachings of men of questionable character, believing it to be truth and eschewing all other sources, friend? I would think that God almighty has enormous resources available to make himself known to us.....much more reliable, and less damaging than an organization founded and run by men who chose to live by the *flesh* rather than by the spirit.

Well Vickles, It may not necessarily be a case of *misery*, or of abuse. It may simply be a lifetime of making choices of what is best for all family members involved.....be that staying together or divorce. I just know that many chose to wait untill the children are grown.....believing that once this responsibility is fulfilled, that after decades, of putting aside ones dreams and ambitions, that at 50 maybe it is time to focus on ones own desire and personal development. Sometimes we have spouses that are supportive and take care of us and our needs, that allow and encourage us to grow and explore our interests....sometimes our spouses are oblivious to our suffering, I know some that even activly opposing efforts of their wives to grow. Maybe after we have spent our entire lives taking care of everyone else, at 50 we decide maybe it is *our* turn. Many of my friends have gone back to college, or started new hobbies, I am persuing my lifelong goal of studying martial arts, and training horses. Some of my friends are starting businesses.....Many of us are fortunate to have indulgent understanding spouses that encourage and support us, I tend to think that those are the marriages that will make it..... while others of us are stuck with selfish fellows who still believe it should be our sole function to serve them and keep them happy. I am just trying to give answeres as I see em from my personal experience and those of my friends and family in their 40`s and 50s ....