rascal

The tribe, guest spouse n I `ll be there....gee I hope that dooesn`t scare anyone away ...... ulp

and *I* believe that vpw works were inspired by Satan, the God of this world. Yet another reason they are not permitted in MY home..... And FURTHER more any of you whom still enjoy them are promoting darkness as well....but hey that is just me stating my opinion....oh poor me I hope that I don`t get bbq`ed for my pov.....boo hoo Offended??? (yeah, you oughtta be) Oh well....it really IS all your fault anyway because undoubtedly you simply are misunderstanding my intention.

You took a polite conversation and made it ugly Dove. You are not behaving in the kind and respectfull manner that had heretofor earned respect and made your pov worthey of consideration..... No problem, Continue to administer your litle spiritual spanking to all of us sub standard believers... pat yourself on the back for being an oh so superior christian....

Dove you are being obtuse, whether it is deliberate or not I don`t know. Either way, it is dissapointing. JohnnyL, your unbending stand doesn`t anger anybody, it is your insults and derision that you insist on employing while doing so that is found to be offensive. Both of you play the same silly game....insult, degrade, maligne others and THEN cry *foul*, beat your chests and pretend to be persecuted .....all the while proudly wearing your martyrs robes ..... Go ahead n slap each other on the back, hi fiving for the spiritual bu tt kicking that you think you have just administered. Be all impressed with your spiritual selves...as it is probable that you are the only ones who who will be..... you have both lost a lot of credibility with your posturing and insults.

Rofl!

You are mischaracterising us and our pov Dove, it is unfair and unworthey of you.

Hey Tom, a monk or priest(can`t remember which) wrote my all time favorite story as a child for that very reason.... *The swiss family Robinson* I agree enjoy together, discuss, and educate.

Well said Linda.

Oh geeze, so in addition to being spiritually asleep at the switch, guilty of promoting something as evil as sexual molstation...we are now considered hp wannabees and flocking like lemmings gathering to run over the cliff.... Consider please, that the need to thoroughly trash someone or something that doesn`t happen to appeal to us personally is an unsavory habit that people once associated with twi all to readily employ. Lemmee get this straight Johnny L, you deny yourself the pleasure of reading current favorites and lack the ability to converse with other folks who enjoy the book.... and this is supposed to be impressive? Why don`t you tape the super bowl, the basket ball playooffs... or the world series and watch em all 5 years hence ...better yet, why not lock yourself away from the world for 5 years and reemeerge and then indulge yourself in the things folks found entertaining when you secluded yourself.....what have you proven??....what is the big deal?? What is it about waiting makes you feel so special??? So as I understand it.... HP is ok as long as we wait 5 to 10 years to read it....somehow that will make it a little more wholsome and us more spiritual, and we will have proven some point.

I know DoveI will try to elaborate.... You maligne rowlings stories because you either cannot or will not apreciate their value. You maligne and insult us by equating our enjoyment of her books with the support of physical and sexual abuse....an allegation which I find personally offensive. Your paralells are completely unfoundeded .....but you wave scriptures or the name of Jesus like some banner and seems to make you feel some how more rightious than the rest of us........ My whole point was that we learned from being in twi that scriptures in a written work do not necessarily make for spiritual healthy material.....like wise lack of scriptures do not necessarily point to spiritual nasty in a story. I am glad that I can enjoy her works along with all of the other great epics that have been coming out ....Star Wars whew...Lord of the rings...great fun....the lion the witch and the wardrobe is coming out this Christmas....(yeah it is an outstanding CHRISTIAN allegory and yes it has witches and magic in it) so glad that I can enjoy these epics wholeheartedly without fear of contamination... I know where you are coming from......honestly, I have been on both sides of the issue....that is why I cannot get too angry...I understand the feeling of drawing a line in the stand...thinking I am standing up for God in the spiritual battle.....it is a noble thing that you believe you are doing... (edited for being extranious) You are capable of doing so without casting aspersions on your fellow Christians though.

Dove, I have no problem with you not likeing HP, your loss....it is a shame though that you have to maligne that which you do not understand ...too bad that you have to maligne those who no longer fall within your catagory of thinking as well.

One of the things that my kiddoes have picked up reading the hp series is that evil doesn`t always appear to be so.... Villains many times are disarming with their helpfull kindness....the hero does not always look wholesome ....many times it is not untill the end of the story that you sort out who is who..... Kind of like the wheat and the tares.... I wish that I had had an understanding of this at an early age.....

The point is dove, children have read these tales for generations, all containing magic, witches, dragons, fairies....and it has yet to be shown to lure children onto a path of darknes. I read these stories as a child and did not seek to do magic, I watched bewitched and i dream of genie and never attempted to cast spells .... I enjoyed the magic of star wars and the caracters in the hobbit as a teenager and was never ONCE tempted to seek Satan.... It will be the same for our children.... I think you run the risk of turning kiddoes off from God when you invoke a religion silly enough to be consumed with seeing darkness and evil that just simply isn`t there.

The message dove, is that appearances are deceptive....twi using scripture did not make it a spiritually healthy place...rkrowling telling stories of wizards does not equal fellowshipping with darkness.... Those who find great value in her tales are not any less vigillant, or less spiritual, any less favored of God, or anticipating Jesus` return any less than YOU! Bigotry and arrogance were traits that we aquired in twi.....it can blind one to benefits outside of their sphere of understanding.

That is a very big part of it Bell...my kids and I are really enjoying talking about what we loved what we hated.....re reading and finding the clues to where she is going to take this story....each of us finding passages to back up our personal favorite theories....Geeze connecting with your kids...whatta concept! Parents and kids reading and enjoying books together for hours/days at a time......lively enthusiastic discussions, catching the kids at 2 am with a flashlight sneaking in a few more pages under their covers.....kids under 12 enthusiastically reading books of 800 pages plus....the t.v. off for weeks.....THIS is considered *dumming* down in America? Well, all I can say is...gimmee more! TWI with all of it`s scripture and vigillance, oh so spiritually pure mindset.....destroyed tens of thousands of lives..... I haven`t seen any such claims made against RK Rowling.... Sometimes evil is much more subtle....appearing as that wich is wholesome.....that is why we were fooled.... Take a look at the fruit of both...who has caused the most harm?

Niether was I Linda, niether was I.

Naw, any leadership is fair game imo.....perpetraters of evil come in both sexes.

It HAD to be a plan....why was Harry paralysed just before Draco entered?....Why did Dumbledor talk to Draco untill snape arrived? Why did Snape rush Draco away to safety? Why didn`t they go back through the cabinent in the ror to b&b?

Dove twi leaders used scriptural justification to enforce EVERY one of the acts I mentioned.... You have people accomplishing great evil utilizing scriptures as their means to accomplish manipulation and destruction. You have rk rowling writing entertaining stories that children the world over enjoy. Twi with scriptural manipulation verses rowling with her harry potter stories...hmmmmm You tell me who is guilty of more destruction...physically mentally AND spiritually, hands down, it is those who piouslly espoused the scriptures .... Give me the fantasy world of rowling over the hypocracy of twi`s brand of christianity any day.

Naw reread pawtucket`s post cat, it is Satan who is offended .... lol There are some things apparently that even HE won`t stoop to;-)

It most certainly was dove and not just taught to me.... I am NOT a liar and do not apreciate your inferance of such.... If you need me to start another thread stating the scriptures used to force and justify these actions I will of course oblige....though I have posted them numerous times before.

The most destructive doctrine ever foisted off on people came from the scriptures dove.... Forced sex, forced abortion, forced divorces, forced abandonment of ones children...justification of adultery, justification of the destroying of ones brother, justification of covering felonies..... All doctrines taught in twi, all doctrines backed up with sciptures, all destructive and evil. It doesn`t have to have witches and Goblins contained within to be pure evil evil and capable of great destruction.. Likewise, something doesn`t necessarilly have to have scripture to be wholsom and spiritual... Ever read the Chronicles of Narnia? Pure Gold, all a spiritual allegory, yet never are scriptures or God referenced ....but yet, all about them. They too contain magic, dragons, centaurs, witches, talking animals.....and yet are widely embraced by Christians world wide as an outstanding tool for inspiring children ....building within them a love for God and understanding of the spiritual battle that is unparalleled. Scripture doesn`t garauntee wholesomeness , nor the lack of it necessarily indicate darknes....Goodness we have all certainly witnessed THAT first hand....

We are still continuing this on the other thread. There is some really good input to be discussed.

Nope raf, you (as always) were a perfect gentleman :-) It took people rationally addressing my preconcieved notions, my irrational fears...my previously unadressed symptoms of way brain ...etc I am gratefull for everyones patience back then.

Agreed.....I also think that we are reasonable adults that can disguss our point of view. I was on the other side of this argument when the fourth book came out, and am really apreciative of the folks who patiently addressed my concerns, allaying my fears so that eventually I embarked on one of the most exciting reading adventure of my life. There is much to be gained...kids learn that villains don`t always look like villains, heroes don`t always appear wholesom on the surface.....evil doesn`t always have a neat little warning lable plastered in view to warn the unwary.... Good verses evil, bravery, the consequences of cowardice....the list is endless....