rascal

Belle, I remember being SO lonely after leaving twi....it was years before I figured out how to make new friends.... NOW however, lol my Mom refuses to go to town with me any more because there isn`t a single stop we make that I don`t run accross somebody who I end up talking with....a 15 miniute trip to wallmart takes two hours because I run into so many buddies.... Getting involved with different groups, theatre, ball teams, humane society, classes, church, all can be great avenues of meet folks and find those kindred spirits..... It is so much fun to indulge yourself in your OWN interests and to find people who share them...unlike twi where we had to make ourselves fit into somebody elses mold and like whatever the current lc determined was politcally correct. I have made friends that are as dear to me as my twi friends...and these will never abandon me at the drop of a hat like the good wafers did....you will too, it just takes a little time:-)

Tom, that was a question that I asked John in order to clarify his position. It was a quote that he was answering for me.

ok, thanks for trying to answere my questions John. I ask because when I was in twi, I really didn`t think very different than what you stated. I am trying to figure out why/where I got the idea that if I was hit, it was because I deserved it. (not that my spouse ever subcribed to this thank God). I am trying to figure out where I picked up this mindset, and when I changed my thinking.

Actually John, it was hinted at when I married my corpes spouse....kind of along the lines of your emotions will make you unstable at times and therefor it is up to the more logical man, his spiritual responsibility as head of house hold to keep me on track utilizing whatever means necessary, and I oughtta be damn glad that he would love me enough to do so. I just made up my mind to be darn sure that spouse would never have a reason to resort to such measures... Your statement just took it a step further.....I was curious to know if current off shoots or other churches teach this. Will you feel any different if someday your future son in law or daughters boy friend ever decides that she *deserves to be clocked* or your daughter in law shows up to a family dinner sporting a well earned shiner? What if your son as a male feels his mother or sister as overly emotional females deserve to be struck? Do you think that our daughters as females need to be clocked more than their male brothers? Does their gender make them more unstable or is it something that occurs after marriage? Due to their volatile nature do they need someone else to stand in to administer the blows when merited untill they have a spouse to keep em in line?? Is this a mindset that we can attribute to twi teaching or you have felt this way prior to your envolvement? It is attitudes like this that make me wonder if I even want my sweet daughters to marry a Christian.

Geeeeeze CW, I hate it too. Please give your kiddo (yeah I know she is 28) a hug for me....I have a 7 yr old ....I cannot imagine that little sweetie having to endure what your child did...it makes it so graphic and real to me. I guess being raised in the way varied greatly with where one was located :-(

Cool Act 2!!! Congratulations on embarking on a journey that isn`t easy, but filled with rewards....It will be really tough, but you will feel so proud of yourself :-) I started studying karate at age 40 ...I have to work much harder than the other students....I`ll never be as fast or effective....but I am having the time of my life!

May I derail one more time for a miniute? Not that I want to turn this into a *bash John* thread....but I really am curious... John, if you are still speaking to us....I`d honestly and without rancour like to ask where you picked up this line of reasoning....you know that God made you guys stronger because we women needed to kept in line physically.... Was that something you were taught in twi? Is this something that you have picked up from teachings of an off shoot or church since leaving?... Is it a theory that you have come up with after carefull consideration on your own? If you are willing to discuss your reasoning, we could start another thread and I`ll stop derailing this one... Thanks, respectfully ...... Cathy

Also....why did Dumbledor fly to THAT particular tower....directly on the OTHER side of the protective curse ...where the trap had been laid....the only place in the castle that it would have been effective? Was it also so that none of the order could get through and help/interfere? How did they know that D would fly on a broom directly there instead of just going directly into the castle from the front entrance? Why were the death eaters there...why was the curse already in place...how did Draco know that D was already in the tower? Could it have been a prearranged meeting place for the act that d and s wanted to stage for v`s benefit?... later to be verified by the death eaters who witnessed both Draco AND Snape being loyal to Voldemort....eliminating any suspicion of either of them, thereby enabeling them closer access to V....they may both yet have roles to play in the vanquising of Voldemort.....

Probably true raf.....but after re reading the final chapter I have to wonder about the strange things dumbledor said when he drank the potion.....the hallucinations or flash backs...whatever.....It sounded like he had betrayed someone....it sounded like he was very sorry. I know this is crazy but bear with me... is there ANY chance that that wasn`t really dumbledor at all?....(I am thinking Poly juice potion) Maybe V needed to THINK D was dead....maybe snape n d switched..(there was a lot of p potion mentioned this book)... How did D know what kind of potion it was in the cavern?...(snape was the potion master)...Wouldn`t it be more likely that snape as a death eater would know tound out about somehe secret of v`s hiding spot for the horcrux....narcissa said that he was v`s most trusted folllower....is that how d found out about some of the horcruxes? WHY did D freeze Harry when Draco came...why did he keep talking....wasn`t it like he was WAITING for someone....How come Snape didn`t take Draco back through the room of requirements and through the vanishing cupboard to the Burgess n Bourkes?....surely that would have been quicker than to drag draco through the school and all the way across the grounds to aperate elsewhere? Would that have been a way to get Draco off the hook with v and enable snape to honor oath to narcissa? Where was Fawlkes? He appeared in two books to save Harry and Dumbledor....in the last one taking the direct blast of a spell...and being reborn...what prevented him from being at D`s side this time? Even if they didn`t switch....Just a few things that have made me wonder if there wasn`t some sort of a deliberate plan in action...and that Snape was doing what waas required

Johniam said: Well thats ONE way to justify violence, and excuse ones lack of self control ...shrug

Deal! and thanks....

AUGH big enough to straighten your hook???? Well if you ever wanna fish for pike, and want to make the trip...I`ll host a pike/bass/trout fishing vacation here at our cabin in Michigans beautifull U.P. Damn right lets end it... heres my hand. Have a great day yourself!

What do you fish for up there?

Small around 25 inches....when I was a kiddoe, they were over 50..... The bass have been outstanding though....at least 4 small mouths that were 5 plus pounds and all over 19 inches.

Nothing compared to what you folks enjoy up there of course.... I dream of a fishing trip up your way some day.

Darn tootin! We have caught several trophy bass, the pike have been small this week though.....

Sounds fun.... I am in the great north woods near Lake superior...Gosh darn it, there is a whole lake of bass calling my name.....I`ll be danged if I know what I am doing in here....lol Have fun with your family.....

Confusing?? What isn`t to understand? According to your pov, YOU and your family are *special* because you don`t read hp, While WE on the other hand are wannabee wizards, mindlessly following the trends of the world , flocking to the book store seemingly oblivious of the impending spiritual doom...some how not quite as virtuous as you who stand unbendable..... Granted, you are not as condescending as Dove, but the tone is there regardless. It is reminiscent of twi mindset and reads like a slap in the face...possibly leading to some of the bristeling and posters taking umbrage.

I have NO problem with yours or anyone elses opinion of the hp books, it was the casting aspersions on the integrety and character of posters whom have read them that I took issue with.

THAT was the friggin point Johnny L. It WAS offensive, deeply so, (made me sick to even write it)....just as offensive as when you and dove insulted by casting aspersions on the quality of our christian character in your attempt to drive home your point when slamming those of us who enjoyed reading HP. It was to make a point that you two were extremely offensive in pointing your fingers of spiritual judgement in your assessment of anyone not currently of the same mindset as yourself.... Far from irritating you because folks flocked to the book store....I think that it simply ....es you off beyond all reason, that we no LONGER are acting as spiritual lemmings blindly racing to you or anyone else, and being properly cowed at the invocation of twi dogma.

No Johnny, it really wasn`t very nice at all... it was deliberatly nasty to make a point. Your vote of aproval doesn`t make such behavior any more acceptable.

hmmmm I dunno, what IS a wienie roast without poison oak, chocolate biscuts, visits from law enforcement, or lost children? Lol I am JUST kidding, Great Northern Weenie Roast it is!

Excathedra....I don`t now if there IS an *aceptable* way to go through this......I am very sorry for your pain.

VERY good point chef.....

Raf, I stand corrected....thank you.