rascal

GC, they were a family I knew for many years while I was in.....this occured in the late 90s I believe....quit some time after I had left. The detailsof the daughters m&a were relayed to me by someone who left after I did.

Mstar, I guess that is why Jesus said .... by their *fruit* you will know them...

I think that you nailed it Allan! Probably the people that taught and blessed you were entirely different than the folks that bedeveled some of us....there were some OUTSTANDING teachers and ministers that were attracted to twi for a time....I agree that knowing and learning from some of them were a privelige.

I believe that the second story occured in the late 90s. I knew and cared for the family, but had been out for quite a while when this occured. The details were relayed to me by someone who left long after I did.

Allan, there is NOTHING that I have posted whether it has been teaching`s heard or experiences endured that have not been corroberated by other posters. VP DID say those things....guess you must not have been present for those teachings....doesn`t mean it wasn`t taught and heard directly from vp`s lips. I am truly sorry that twi and vpw were not what you thought it was Allan. I myself am grieved that it was not what I dedicated my heart and life to for 15 years. I wish that it had been, God I truly wish we had been right.... we`d a changed the world :-(

Can`t remember now if he said that it was apostle or prophet now that you press me on it Allan...well it was one or the other....guess after two decades the memort slips a little. Does anybody else remember which?

Some OTHER *new* light that he used to share.... When teaching about Uriah....he would say that since all of the women of the kingdome belonged to the KING...David hadn`t sinned with Bathsheba......... At another time he would teach that TODAYS ministers took the place of old testament kings....because God would work through them to minister to/make himself known to his people. That was one of the lines of reasoning behind why it was ok for him to have any woman he wanted ...married or single, teen or older, it was his due.

As far as HIS claims of being a prophet... VPW would say that a prophet is one who brings new light to his generation.... and in the next breath he`d say ... God told me, that he would teach me the word like it had never been known since the first century.... Damn STAIGHT he wanted us to believe that he was a prophet....guess there are no fake degrees to purchase proclaiming one to be a prophet or we`d a had to refer to him as DOCTOR vpw THE prophet of God almighty for this day and age.....

Can`t argue with her reasoning or the content of her post so you attack the poster eh Oldies? Same oldie same oldie ... you got nothing of value to offer in support of your belief.... only thing left is to try to obfuscate by slamming the poster. What a shame you are incapable of seeing the wisdome of what Sunesis shared.

Fair enough James, I guess that you were a whole lot smarter than me. I bought into it all. At 17 I believed what I was taught. I was taught very early that if I wanted to grow with God, become effective as a valiant warrior in the spiritual battle....I must oney leadership first and formost.....the story of peter obeying Jesus in spite of the circumstances was drummed into my head.... I didn`t think I HAD a choice if I was to remain within the will of God. I did terrible things for God, things that broke my heart ....because twi leadership said that THEY spoke for God and that GOD almighty himself required obediance in these matters..... Stupid? Oh HELL yeah I admit it....but that doesn`t excuse twi from being very evil and taking advantage of our youthfull naevity. I do not trust this group that manifested such evil.... I do not trust their interpretation of God`s will.... Frankly, it will be a long time if EVER I will even trust scripture again after having it utilized as the authority to enforce leaderships every base desire. I HATE twi for what they manipulated us into doing for God.

Lindy, it was this way out in the field....I saw it a couple of times....a woman with a child would get married...to a man who was completely clueless about raising children...she would then turn over her twig and childrens fellowship activities to the new head of household with disasterous results. I would watch these sweet children just wither from the sarcasm the screaming the punishment recieve at the hands of the buffoon now throwing his weight around....enjoying his new power and ability to control...I watched these children submit to outragious treatment because they believed that if they loved God and wanted to be a blessing to their mother....this was what was required. God I get sick to my stomache remembering a sweet teenaged boy being screamed at by the new step dad in public...his face scarlette with shame...the man giving every evidence of enjoying it..... I knew one teenaged girl who resented the step Dad .... the lc told the family to throw her out of the home because of her disobediance....the family resisted and was propmptly told that the daughter goes or the entire family would be m&a....sigh the girl went to the streets....

Thank you Belle, the information really was in the scriptures we so reveared all along...can you BELIEVE that we didn`t see it?

Thankyou Sunesis, that makes all the sense in the world...I am still mad enough that I don`t feel quite ready to forgive them even yet. Looking at it from your pov, is a little different however than some sanctimonious buffoon pointing their finger in my face saying I have to do it because they are my brothers ....we all sin and God requires it of me....(SCUSE ME??? I don`t remember EVER deliberatly hurting someone in God`s name for personal gain....I`ll thank you folks NOT to place me in the same catagory with these criminals .. tyvm) Your scenario, I can consider. Let God sort the tares out...

James, that is NOT why I signed up for the way corpes....nor what many others had in mind either... I applied for the way corpes because I was TOLD that if I really believed this stuff...that I really loved God.....that it would behoove me to learn to serve God to the best of my ability. I was TOLD that the BEST way to accomplish this was to complete the corpes program.... GOD needed us ...God NEEDED us trained to be douloses, ... the way corpes was the BEST way......DAMN IT.... there was nothing mercenary or ladder climbing about it for most of us....just a desire to be a blessing to God and best be abpe to minister to people to make this world just a little better place......grrrr .... Earnest, honorable, NOBLE ambitions....hijacked and utilized to do nothing more than service the apetite of twi. James you deeply offend me with your assumptions concerning our motivations and your attempts to place blame on the people who`s hearts and motives were so pure....most of us never DREAMED dreamed that our efforts were being utilized by evil to masquerade behind...or to enable and support it. We had no idea upon entering the way corpes that our sisters would be required to *minister* sexually to the leaders....our children would be required to submit to beatings while we stood by helplessly....our tithe that we gave freely and went without ourselves being used to buy toys for the leadership.....our time, our youth and our lives would no longer be our own....meerly resources to be squandered by evil men...AUUGH! THANKFULL???? I think not grrrrr

Sure isn`t what we were promised would occur if we EVER attempted to leave the ministry that taught us God`s word eh? In twi we were generally broke...miserable because we couldn`t figure out why our believing wasn`t good nuff to recieve the abundant life promised... but we comforted ourselves with the thought that we were simply under attack from Satan because of our *stand for God* and this world wasn`t our home ...so it really didn`t matter anyway. We were told we would die if we ever left the ministry that taught us God`s word.... After leaving twi....we have bountifull lives, living better than we ever dreamed, better houses better jobs, enjoying the respect of the community....twi splains it all off as we are being bought off by Satan...sold out to the world...etc. They can explain our accomplishments and failures...lol twi is NEVER wrong...

Whoah ...what a bleak existance :-(

Tom n oen.... AMEN brotha!

Could be you are right Groucho.... I guess tied up in my question are issues about how I feel about God. It probably doesn`t make much difference flim flam man or false prophet.... It makes a difference in what my responsibilities are as a Christian. If vp and lcm are simply brothers who have stumbled, my responsibilities OUGHT to be forgive them and even pray for lcm...pray for twi....shiver If they were false prophets...my responsibility is entirely different.... I don`t then feel honor bound to love or forgive. I don`t know if this makes any sense. It makes a difference in whether or not we are vindictive back biting, tale bearers, or watchman identifying and warning the unwarey of evil.

How so Sky4it? In WHAT way was he not as wacked? I mean yeah he was better at hiding his sexual predation.....Koresch didn`t hide the fact that he s;ept with all of the women.... Jones ordered all of his folks dead...but then again weren`t we waiting for some gov`t take over...many of us willing to give our lives for the mog and to preserve the word. I guess the paralell I am seeing is that these guys all taught scripture convincingly as ministers....they then used those sciptures to manipulate people into doing horrible things.... As wafers, we feel loathing towards these othere false prophets that harmed folks in God`s name....but when it comes to OUR ministry, we want to excuse our leaders as simply men who started out good but went bad. Like I said, it makes a difference in what is required of me.

What Jim ? ... WHAT did you say to judy??? Agreed, I think the answeres are in the scriptures...So far I have not found anything that excludes vpw from the false prophet catagory....and belle has posted quite a few that would describe the actions of vp as those of the false prophet/wolf in sheep`s skin persuasion.

Well Lorna, the rules out on the field were always different than those at the root locals...about nearly everything from child abuse to extra marital sex to abortion.... The people who lived there were supposed to be more mature.... *spiritual* enough to handle this greater discipline and commitment that was required of a doulos...same for the children. That was the justification anyway. For goodnes sakes if the head of childrens activities at a way corpes training campus is a viscious bully that is abusing children....it is going to be viewed as the *best* way to do things:-(

Good point Belle, can you cross post this to the false prophet thread? (I don`t know how) :-( I think that this has bearing on that discussion.

Lol DOve, not at all....sorry bout my short term memory :-) What bothers me John and Allan is why we would consider vp any different from Jim Jones, David koresch, the false prophets, the pharacees in the scriptures? They all taught scripture...people believed them to be holy men of God......people were inspired and feel they were led to God through their ministries... I am honestly asking ..... what sets vp apart from these other people who have hurt, stolen and destroyed in God`s name? What makes vp`s sins any less contemptible than these people?

Yup, why not read the thread and consider our points and contribute something substantial to give evidence to your thoughts on the matter. I would be curious if you could answere my first question on this thread....it was genuine. I would gladly consider what you can provide to give credence one way or the other.

That is what we are attempting to do here allan....really.