rascal

Sorry Mr, Hamm, I voted ...should have left the commentary off.

This is where my shame comes in....if wierwille had come right out and said...I`ll teach you the scriptures, but will require that your wives and daughters to have sex with me, as I am as worthey as the ot king, we would have said HELL no! If smarmey martindale had come right out and said I`ll let you in the corpes, but the sweet teenaged girls entering will be required as part of their service to God to participate in threesomes with myself and other staff members....we`d have said HELL no.... But instead, what people saw was wonderfull loving people out on the field ....selflessly teaching the bible, loving people, praying for them, doing everything in their power to minister to folks needs....as being the example of what twi was all about. WE are what disarmed peoples suspicions and lured them into the snare .... God forgive us :-(

In hindsight, this would appear to be the case to me as well sky rider.

Choo Choo ... sorry bout that...I agree, and would like to drop it.

I was born again, had a pretty good knowledge of the basics.... If I needed to endure the treatment of twi to learn to sit....I don`t think it was worth it. I say life with my ignorant (according to twi) church bretheren would have been preferable. I don`t do it much any more, and have not noticed a slackening of God`s goodness to me .

ROFLMAO! I am telling you that very few of the churches and religious organizations that we were taught to abhor....will hurt you like twi. I personally do not think that the greatness of the word they teach amounts to much .... when evil flourishes so rampantly in that group. Give me honest fellowship with my ignorant (according to twi) any day :-)

Oldies, and we wouldn`t have been if the government laid seige to hq? (actually my husband agrees with you on that one) Apples and Oranges? All of the men taught scripture, all of the men led people to get born again.... Invovement in their ministries became detrimental. Could the scriptures taught have been a lure to bring people in to a group, disarming their suspicions, untill the snare is finally triggered?

ok oldies, good point....what puzzels me about following that line of logic is that Koresche and Jones followers said that their leaders did the SAME thing! (Not the sit part but claims that they were led to the lord and got born again)..... How is vp different than these nut jobs who taught scriptures, brought people to the lord....folks claim they were born again? It`s all cool right? God was taught, people got born again.....all cept for that nasty litlle bit at the end involving the Kool aid and taking on the tbi....

Allan, you are mistaken about me being angry.

Gosh Dove you slap everyone in the face like you did in that other thread and folks reacted strongly to your rudeness....folks gave you the benefit of the doubt, politely explaining how offensive your insults were...all to no avail. Some folks on this thread responded to your unwarranted(and uncharacteristic) meanness ....I understand that my perception of twi does not match your own....but that doesn`t make it ok to act like a jerk. Nobody is on anybody`s elses side here, ...Geeeze...this isn`t kindergarten....we either agree or disagree with one anothers assessments of topics being discussed ....

I suppose that reasoning sounds as good as any to act like a bully.

Yeah, I kind of figured all of this rancor from you might have had something to do with unresolved issues on another thread...

Doesn`t matter if you agree or not....everything I listed WAS taught IN twi, and was responsible in large part for our willingness to endure that which we detested. That in and of itself wouldn`t have been so bad, had it REALLY been what God required of us. But it was what twi wanted, and in order to get it...they played the *God* card.

Yeah, but it was two on one :-) I sure wasn`t preventing you from posting your point of view...but you and allan didn`t seem to feel mine should be allowed... No problem, That is the nice thing about greasespot...we are all allowed to express our opinions as long as we remain respectfull of others. A privilege twice as dear, because many of us were not allowed to dissent in twi.

Thats right Dove, you did say that, I remember now that I apreciated your thoughts on the matter...(I had to read back a few pages)... Thanks, you made some valid points.

Oh well THAT makes all of the lies taught ok then...

Guess he isn`t interested in good manners or forum etiquette (sp?) Word wolf, but thanks for your attempts at clear understanding of the situation at hand. Now, back to topic.... Can someone who doesn`t believe he was a false prophet give me any thoughts on why vp`s behavior WOULDN`T place him in this catagory? Dove and Allan, can either of you explain why in your opinion, vp was any different than Koresche or Jones?

Yeah, Dove I can see the confusion ... as there are so MANY *abuse in the way threads* sigh...what a shame that twi caused enough pain in so many different areas as to fill so many pages Actually, ... I got the impression that this looked ,more like a white dove and Allan dog pile on Rascal thread m`self ... lol :-)

Absolutely Goey, I do not understand why blaming someone for being weak, seems to mitigate the evil of the Villain in some peoples minds.... We were WEAK because we believed the scriptures that these men taught us. We were weak because we trusted the men who taught us the scriptures... We were taught from the scriptures that we must obey leadership first time every time IF we wanted to be doulos. We were taught from the scriptures that leaving the protection of the household would result in calamity and death. We were taught that lack of compliance with leaders meant that we were stiff necked and would not recieve the things of God... We were taught that it was an honor to service the mog and that to refuse would mean we weren`t *spiritual* enuff to handle it.... We were taught that we must abort our children if they interfered with our commitment to twi. Damn RIGHT we were weak!!!! THEY weakened us, stripped away our defenses subtly, gradually, us unaware of the danger because the predations were made with scriptural back up.... We did what we had been taught that GOD required of us.... bitterly hating it, desperatly trying to renew our minds so as not to listen to our 5 senses or emotions and change our minds and dissapoint God....let down the ministry that taught us God`s word, and betray the trust of our brothers and sisters... Our love for God and desire to serve him was the tool that was utilized to weaken us to the point of being vulnerable for these unscrupulous bastards.

That seemed to be the norm in twi Mr. Hamm... It started at the top .... VP`s behavior that we would have found intollerable in any other human on the planet, actions that further more, would have branded him as a criminal, landing him in jail in any other circle, were not only tolerated, but winked at and covered up as well, because he was teaching the bible. They seemed to think that the scripture they taught, bought them immunity from ever having to obey the laws, whether they be of man or of God..or from having to aswere for the consequences that their actions.

Awww Allan, you thought that about me? How sweet ;-) The only thing that I know about your life, is what you chose to share with us here. The only assessments that one can make about your character are based on what you personally display when posting....Our impressions of you, your manners, your compassion, your integrety, your trustworthiness in general are determined entirely by the content of your posts.

I think that their troubles run much deeper than internet demons....lol I heard that every time they pick up the phone to dial out for help....all they can get is a mysterious voice saying.....*return the farm to the wierwille kidssssss* I ALSO heard from a reliable source that in the steam on the mirror of a certain leaders bathroom the words keep appearing *turn yourself over to law enforcement*.......

Lawsuit curses makes em wet their rightious selves, no doubt;-)

Great Bliss, sounds like you are keeping it simple and straight forward.he You will be absolutely amazed at how your life is going to improve Bliss.... Sure most of us at first are a little edgy, waiting for the promised disaster to befall us hen we depar twi....but weeks blend into months, into years of ever growing blessings .... and you begin to relax... As far as abs thing .... could giving money to a group that utilized it as twi has for attornies, hush money, shopping sprees, trips abroad be really what God had in mind? I don`t think God requires youry be sent to twi....or will punish you.

errr care to qualify those sentiments Matilda?