rascal

I think that is what made twi doctrine so wrong and dangerous.... We thought that because we studied more than anybody else... because we prayed more than anybody else... because we witnessed.. because we were committed ... we were more spiritual than everybody else... I am saying that we THOUGHT we were doing what was necessary to be spiritual and pleasing to God.... but in reality what we REALLY needed to be focusing on was operating the two great commandments....as a result, we ended up as a very ungodly organization All of the things we did ...because we didn`t understand love ... (it was as a tinkling symbol) ended up being detrimental ....

When you say "we" who do you refer to and how can you speak for everyone else?The *we* I refer to ...is those all of those who did these things... Didn`t you?.... Then Oldies said....Besides, I saw lots of folks who walked in love. Even I did every now and then. :D-->[/quote: Walking in love had a VARIETY of meanings in twi....most of them having very little to do with what Jesus emphasized when speaking of the tow great commandments.

I think that the *good doctrine* taught should be *love God* and *love your neighbor* Jesus said that THESE were the two biggies.... This renders the *controversial elements of christianity* relatively unimportant ..... If offshoots are teaching and praticing these two commandments...jcing, atdan and all the rest is simply window dressing imo.... NOT adhereing to these is what I think led to the incapacitaion of twi as a Godly ministry. We studied our fool heads off to *show ourselves aproved* We sit nearly constantly...tithed ...witnessed....committed our entire lives and resources to God ....and it all meant SQUAT (or tinkling symbol if you will) because we did not understand or operate the first two commandments.

Damn, highway, I am sorry...was looking forward to meeting you.

Gawd I could not ever imagine going back to that mess Belle, I think you are right...it says a lot.

Nebber mind :-)

*Women are all liars*....*Women aren`t gonna be around when HE speaks in tongue*....JE Stiles was inexcusably rude to his wife, thus rising him up 99% in vp`s opinion.... whatta guy! Now THERES a guy I wanna learn everything pertaining to life and Godliness from..... That story ALWAYS bugged me ...grrrr

I guess that I am not afraid to say that I actually HATE twi for what was done to so many good people in God`s name.

rofl, awe come on brother speed, lol tell us what you REALLY think ;-)

Good point mo. I know that there were some really kind leaders in twi, but I think it is as you say...they were that way before becoming involved. I see that in a friend of mine who is a mormon....really a spiritually sharp lady...she attributes her growth to her church....I can see that it is something that she brings with her in spite of their teaching... her outstanding walk and understanding and contribution can make her church seem really nice. I have seen the same thing with a couple of my catholic friends and a couple of methodist ministers rthat are neighbors....really great folks that serve selflessly, that have that special I dunno *spark* spiritually ...yet you cannot attribute it to any one doctrine or church. I am not denying that there were many in twi that were really loving and kind....I wonder if they were that way in SPITE of twi doctrine and practice......I think also that these folks kind as they were, made twi seem a more spiritually wholesome place than it actually was....lending it a sense of legitimacy.....thus our varied experiences.

amen, AMEN, A FRIGGIN MEN!!!!

Good points Mo, we were so busy focusing on doing things JUST right, trying desperatly to dot all i`s and cross all t`s in order to avoid leaving open doors for Satan....that we were unable to enjoy the simple pleasures of fellowship with other saints.

CW, Thanks, that makes a lot of sense... I got to the point after applying those principles unsuccessfully, that it appeared that it was GOD who was screwed up....I spent a lot of time feeling betrayed .... Why if God loved me didn`t I get led to a legitimate Christian organization? Why if God loved me didn`t he work when I applied the principles.... I never dreamed that my understanding of him as presented in twi might have been what was at fault. I have wondered if what we were taught didn`t have the effect of drawing us away frpm or *forgetting* God.

I guess that was pretty mean....but shoot, if all you do is attack people, try to hurt, try to discredit, try to cause fights, insult.... What are you actually doing of benefit? I am bewildered as to why anyone would be offended by folks here being kind to one another.

Damn right, I am thankfull for the support, kindness and wisdom of these folks. Call it hand holding and whispers of encouragement if you wish Allan .... I thank GOD for the folks willing to give of themselves....but whatEVER you chose to call it, it certainly beats the hell out of the venom and spit that you have spewed since your arrival. What the hell do you have REALLY got to offer anyone? What the hell good are you to anyone? Do you REALLY think that by your actions here you are an inspiration? Do you REALLY think that your actions here magnify God? Do you really think that God would want you to treat us this way?

Yeah, it was always the pharacees, the people who hurt and stole in God`s name that fired Jesus up. Yeah...but Jesus...I knew the word like it hadn`t been known since the first century...I spoke in tongues like a house a fire....I witnessed, I tithed.....I operated all of the principles.....my fridge top was clean, my sock drawers were neat.... my physicals in order.... I had no debt...I knew all of my scriptural retemories....for heavens sake, I was an ADVANCED class grad!!!!!! Jesus, his gaze full of compassion and sorrow.....and sadly says...depart, for I knew you not.

Yeah I can just see em eagerly lining up hands stretched out for their rewards ....and Jesus looks at them sadly and says....*I knew you not*

(((((((gc)))) take care

hey Bell, while not the weenie roast, I will be in your neck of the woods the weekend after. You wanna get some lunch?

There was a believer (wow?) who ended up being a serial killer of college girls in (Lansing?) Michigan. I have forgotten the details...but I saw a tv show about it once.... I have heard that one wow fc in alabama murdered his entire wow family (I think around 79) This was the sort of thing that was hushed up...only those directly involved ever knew.

Mark, the people I met were good, wonderfull, so I can`t say there was NO good in twi...but neither can I say that knowing them made it *worth it*....

Guys, I wish that each of you could understand how much your imput has helped me as I have wrestled with these issues. Please understand that you have helped me put the final pieces in place of a puzzle that I have been trying to put together for over a decade now.... I think I see the big picture now..... I am at peace... I am so damned sorry that in helping me, some of you have been placed in the line of fire. The viscious attacks against you guys when you attempt to share is deeply disturbing. I am so sorry that some of you have had to endure the undeserved insults and callous recriminations... What twi did to us was absolutely unconscionable. What twi has taught people is acceptible to do to one another in God`s name is dispicable as well.

Thanks Temple Lady, Thank you so much for not letting those fools shut you up. TWI tried, Now you have people here trying to shut you up....WHY???? I don`t know why it is so important to people to discredit you.....ity`s like their whole self worth is tied up in keeping vp`s image untarnished..... What you have to say is proof of what many of us suspected all along. What you have to say exposes the evil of twi in a way that is undeniable. The quicker we can come to grips with that, the sooner we can begin the evaluation and healing process. If people are unaware of the evil practiced all the way to the very top levels in that group...they will likely remain unaware of the necessity of reevaluating doctrine and truths imparted by those who have proven themselves untrustworthey.

Oldies, those innocents that you mention being hurt and killed, are not being destroyed by people who insist that they speak for God. The innocents that you mentioned weren`t lured by promises of being taught God`s word and will for our lives. TWI took what they did in God`s name, and when we resisted, were told that God required it of us. There in lies the difference...the evil you speak of doesn`t masquerade as a minister for God.

It does...thank you Mr. Hamm, thank you all.... The betrayal I have felt that God had led us to twi knowing what we were to face.....has seriously affected my ability to trust. If relying on him was what led us to twi....I didn`t want anything to do with him... THIS finally answeres my question of Where was God????