rascal

You know, we had a tornado rip through our valley two summers ago..... It came straight down the valley ripping up fences, destroying barnes, snapping power poles, it got right to my house...snapped the two 150 yr old maple trees that were 10 feet from the house....like they were twigs....after traveling a half a mile in a straight direction...and then instead of demolishing the house....took a sudden 45 degree turn ....crossed the street and headed over the hill to the next valley....there were tree limbs dropped on cars...other houses sustained great camage....one 7 yr old girl lost her life.... What turned it from it`s path a few yards from my front door? It sure as heck wasn`t my prayers OR my believing, because I didn`t know the damned thing was hitting (radar said it was 5 miles south) Why was my house and children spared and the other families not? I dunno I am gratefull, I am humbly thankfull to God.....but I don`t understand why I merited protection from a natural force while my neighbor didn`t. I don`t think it has much to do with good or evil....but who happens to be in the path.

oh OH ...would that include 25,000 dollars for info mercials????

This is about the force twi used to assure compliance... Oldies you seem to want to obscure this point by once again misrepresenting the experiences of the many posters have related here in a variety of different situations....and instead making it a *rascal is just pouting and needs to suck it up thread*.... There is ample evidence here that the twisting of scriptures and invoking the name of God were sop to ensure our implicit obedience.

That is a false assumption oldies....I wouldn`t have fled the first time if it had been what I wanted... I talked with a lady last night who fled her first appointment as well...when she was taken back, it had been arranged to knock her out with drugs for the procedure. What you say may have been true for some....but nearly everyone I have talked to was forced by twi to choose between the fetus and God. The fact that myself and at least 4 others that I personally know of were forced to chose between God and our fetus..... that twi paid for two of these *procedures* that I personally know of.... is way to damn many. It was a lie....God did not require the death of the babies.

THAT sumerizes what it has taken nearly 6 pages for me to try to say in one clear and concise sentence .... ...thankyou Mr. Hamm

Taking the scriptures seriously? Since when do the scriptures say that it is ok to do what twi is guilty of? THAT is the trouble oldies...Neither the scriptures nor God required these things of the committed.... but twi SAID they did...and SIAD that we would lose God`s protection if we didn`t do what they said.... THAT is what is evil and sinister about this.

...and some it did

Well just so long as the babies were murdered for a *noble cause* ..... I suppose God has a special place reserved in heaven for those of us who demonstrated our awsome committment. I`ll bet he is so proud...

Again, this was about pressure being applied by the utilization of God and scripture as manipulation, as a weapon to enforce action and behavior that we personally found abhorrant, and really had nothing to do with what God wanted and needed from us..... It is`nt about abortion...it is about being forced to do that which we found repugnant... Every one of us had situations where unpleasant people were foisted off as room mates ... or meddeling in our marriages....or finances....demanding weekly/hourly scheduals with even time for sex listed.....told where we could go on vacation and required to submit a travel log.... or how many children we were to have or whether we could have a pet or not.... what city we lived in ... harsh punishment of our children by others... ALL things we put up with because it was presented as what God required of a faithfull doulos. Again, no physical gun....but the risk of losing God`s favor and protection if we didn`t comply...

SNORT...now there goes MY coffee all over the screen....roflmao

It is a good thing that God is proud of us for making him *first priority* and *loving him/neighbor* by serving in the way corpes... Gosh as long as he is pleased with the level of commitment we showed...THAT should be enough.

Mr. Hamm... can I tell you about regrets 20 years later? One day you are walking along and you realise that babies have oxygen in the womb...they breath, they react to stimuli, they are startled, they will seek out the source of sound......and it finally dawns on you....twi`s *first* breath teaching was false... You lose your breath, you become nausious, when the realization comes crashing into your brain....that you suddenly no longer believe that the cluster of cells was *not alive*...the horror and revulsion make you retch...you don`t want to contemplate what the implications of your actions are.... Hysteria generally follows....and lest some think I am being mellow dramatic...I have spoken to SEVERAL other women with the same reactions... In the end...you just carry a sick feeling in the pit of your stomache for the rest of your life knowing that you personally murdered your child in service to God ...an action he neither wanted or needed us to preform in order for him to be our first priority... The single line that I have heard the most from other women in this situation is.... Yeah, I KNOW God will forgive me...but how the hell will *I*? I have had more than one poster pm me and say....yeah, I was one of those who was ordered to murder my baby in twi too.. THAT is how we feel 20 years after the fact.

Agreed cm, it has strongly reminded me of the aztecs (or was it incas?) who sacraficed their babies on a regular basis to their God`s in order to gain favor. It was an honor I suppose.

I gotta say oldies, your whole post is really chilling. I cannot imagine that God was pleased when we destroyed our unborn children because he was our first priority... I cannot imagine that he was pleased when we abandoned our family members in need because he was our first priority... I cannot imagine that he was pleased when we booted our children from the home because he was our first priority. We did great harm and evil because God was our first priority...something stinks to high heaven :-(

It wasn`t about a strong desire to remain in the program....it was about not being allowed to leave when ones personal circumstances changed....be it due to family emergency, health issues or unplanned pregnancy. To leave meant to put yourself and loved ones in mortal danger....to stay meant you must destroy your unborn child...some choice.... To leave meant disgrace and shame, excommunication in many instances...to stay all one had to do was have a sterile little procedure to rid one`s self of a paracite... What self respecting doulos would allow satan to trick them out of their commitment by such a minor thing? To put that cluster of not live cells above your commitment to God was considered idolotry.

Hello vyctorya, welcome to greasespot......most of us are not involved with twi anymore either....there is a more comprehensive thread about mrs. w and our regards for her in the *open* forums if you are interested :-).

What about the building and maintening of facilities that most of the contributers never have access to? Toys for the mog....a licoln, top of the line harlys, motor coaches, airplanes, booze, smokes, Yeah no doubt God really needed us to send our tithe to twi for THAT purpose. Weren`t there some sons of a priest in the bible that got in really hot water for doing the same thing?

Aww James, I have moved past the hurt, and am now just good and damned mad...lol No doubt allan, no doubt. Fortunatly, God in all probability knows the score between me n him ... so you don`t need to worry yourself on that account :-). Herbie, *employ them with my NEXT set of kids* roflmao

I was being facitious...I hope you know.

I suppose it could be considered under the auspices of abs being used for the outreach of God`s word.....

They didn`t pay for mine, the lc said to *try to see if the father will pay for it first*....indicating that they would take care of it otherwise....I know others though, who were in the corpes who said that theirs were paid for by twi.

Judging from how well they had the schpeil and scriptures down, and their willingness to pay for the procedure....I have to think that it was more common than we`d like to think:-(

As I have posted before.... I know a family who kicked out their teenager daughter against their own wishes, because they were threatened with m&a if they didn`t. ' They had three younger children and knew that to be m&a would mean to be cut off from the body of christ and protection of God.....that the younger three would be placed in deadly peril. The gun held to their head to make them do other than that which they wished, was God and scriptures...again

Yeah thanks Mr. Hamm, you work through it...it is not so bad for me...as I was able to have children later....two of my friends couldn`t due to damage sustained. How`s that for being blessed (as the mog promised they would be) for obeying leadership?...but hey by God, they honored their vow`s eh? They had the privelige of continuing training...as per God`s will.

Complaining? I don`t think what has been shared here would be considered to be in the *complaining* category.