rascal

Sorry oldies, I changed my post...it was much harsher than I intended....sometimes something sounds a lot funnier in my head...but is ugly when I read it in print :-) It seemed like you were saying that because we had an agenda to sell stuff everyone did.

Our skit was so terrible that I don`t rmember it....I don`t remember yours either if it helps...lol The OTHER family that was in our branch ...now THERES was great...they sang a song about tex tex tex texarkana tex tex...lol and did funny little blurbs about trying to witness find housing lol

Yup...My wow bro and I washed windows with Rick Ely at that big hotel that we had some holiday gathering in in eureka springs...remember the wow limb day at the state park? That was a beautifull place. The full moon shining over the ozark mountains all shrouded with fog....I`ll never forget how pretty it was.

Belle, my dear friend here in Tenn is a mormon. I have known her sonfor several years, an outstanding young man who just recently returnedfrom his the two year mission. I absolutely understood the purity of his desire to put his life on hold for two years and focus solely on how he could get to know/serve/trust God better. It has very little to do with promoting the mormon religion. I also meet with the missionaries that are in the area ....mainly because I understand the honesty of their commitment...they always treat me with respect and always offer to help me out with chore or whatever I need...I have yet to ever have one call me back to try to persue his promotion of his religious beliefs. It truly IS about serving God. And yes it has been our experience here that they DO help all over the community wherever there is a need, without strings being attatched. It cracks me up when people assume because their motives tend to be mercenary, that the whole rest of the world has to have an agenda as well.

ROFLMAO oldies..it is a small world....No damn wonder you look so familiar. I was a wow in Ark that year as well oldies (texarkana and fayetteville)....we were at all of the same meetings and state functions.

Wow Bell, that is amazing .... it completely describes our situation....espescially the part about having a hard time trusting a spiritual system or fellow christians... It would seem twi is able to steal from us even decades after leaving.........

Seems to me that WE were the workman n I damn sure never saw any of that reward....... after the first time, I was at every class ahead of time vaccuming, cleaning the bathrooms, preparing refreshments.... Many times it was held at my house, I supplied the furniture, provided the tv and vcr...paid the utilities, furnished the tp ... Alla my reward went back to vp....

I missed the whole fiasco, dammit... Typical twi...you could ONLY go see it at the roa on the particular night that your region was schedualed....no exceptions....unfortunatly for most of us going wow that year...we were in training when it was out regions turn.... Do you think that ANY exceptions could be made and allow out going wows to attend on a night that they weren`t required to be in class with one of the OTHER regions?? Oh HAAAYULL no! You have put your a$$ on the line for God to spread his word via twi classes leaving family and home for an entire year....your participation is absolutely required in wow training........yet these are the only nights available to attend the greatest spiritual production in history of mankind..... too bad so sad, no aos blessings for YOU! Lol not that I mind now...but it sure chapped my bu tt back then.

and always take the side of ANYONE in twi over the advice and concern of your parents or family members.. and always ALWAYS take the advice of any member of twi over an educated qualified outsider...be it financial, physical, or personal.

Don`t be silly allan, I wasn`t hyperventilating OR berating ....I wasn`t even mildly irritated :-) Actually, what is occuring here is called a DISCUSSION!! A civil exchange of ideas between reasonable people...what a novel idea!

This brings to question not only was God apparently willing to intercede for my son.... but apparently he wanted me aware of the whole situation as well thus restoring a sembelence of peace and trust.... A) I was made aware that my child was in a specific situation, possibly dangerous... B) I was made aware that someone was aware of a need to pray and had for my children... C) a year is spent building my confidence and respect in this womans integrety and spirituality... D) after trust is established and respect is earned,I am made aware of how far God was willing to go to get the attention of someone to pray for this child... My conclusion? I suspect that if we aresimply more aware...if we UNDERSTAND the significance of those ques and promptings of the spirit within to take action ie in prayer and whatever else the situation may warrant. Just my experience in the way I feel that God has helped me in my time of fear...when I couldn`t make everything fit in my understanding....

Cathy...I heard death bells for Benji, the day I called you.... OMG all of a sudden I had this unbelievable picture in perfect clarity of my son sinking lifelessly to the bottom of that pond a year earlier. It was like all of the pieces finally came together after an entire year.... It seems to be that prayer has some sort of energizing power to enact change.... I clearly remember my disquiet of a year earlier, but not recognizing it as a need to pray....or to take any action.....It is my speculation that maybe it was brought to Glorias attention because she would be able to recognize the *signal* that someone was in mortal danger and needed prayer fast. The only conclusion that I could arrive at was that we need to be sensative and alert ....recognizing the promptings of that inner spirit for prayer.... I was humbled that not only would it appear that my child had not only been spared, but such great pains were taken to enlighten and assure me that I could indeed trust God and be at peace... I don`t know how to explain it better other than it all finally made sense again to me.

Throughout the next year, I became better aquainted with Gloria and got to know her as a deeply devout Christian woman..... Learned to trust her judgement and wisdom....one day we were having a conversation about her mother who had heard *bells* whenever somebody was in mortal danger and needed prayers. I kind of snickered mentally n thought mentally...yeah right them durn debbil spirits were really foolin this old gal.... My dear friend then revealed that after her mother died...SHE began hearing the *death bells* as she called em. I kindda freaked....she said that she would be awakened in the dead of night to pray....and at first she ignored them, only to find out later that the person in question had suffered a calamity....usually resulting in death. She found that when she heard the *bells* that if she prayed she would inevitably hear about someone somehow in a life or death battle....who`s crisis had come at the time she was alerted to pray. She then turned and looked at me and said.....

I retrieved my son the next day... healthy and whole.....not remembering the prmonition or prayers.... A few days later, he let it slip that he and the other little boy had gotten up early before the rest of the family and gone to a pond.... The other little boy was able to swim... and though nothing of getting in a canoe with my child who could not swim.......my son then got upset and told me that *carl* had started rocking the boat hard trying to scare him....well neither of the boys had life jackets both were dressed in heavy winter coats and boots...had the canoe turned over ....they would have sunk like rocks.... well...I remembered then that this was about the time frame that Gloria had called and asked if the kiddoes were ok..... I thought wow...maybe her prayers saved em from a dunking... The true significance wasnt made clear for another year.......

I allowed my 5 yr old son to go spend the night with a boy who`s mother I trusted to moniter them closely. I remeber at one point feeling very concerned for my son....but being very busy with my other children, only giving it a passing thought.... At one point ... a woman I barely knew, who`s son was a friend of my older boy...called me and asked me if my children were ok...she had felt an urge to pray... Well, I thanked her, and assured her that all was well....and thought no more about it....

Ok.... I have some thoughts rolling around in my brain....it will take some time and space to sort them all out.....so bear with me please... I got to the point of having absolutely no faith uin miracles or God`s protection after hearing about a ministers 12 yr old daughter that was abducted...and in spite of everyone in the churches prayers...found raped and murdered.... I thought what in the hell gives me the idea that God will be anymore capable or willing to protect MY children from horrible death? It was a real crisis in faith....I began to even think that God wasn`t there...I CERTAINLY didn`t trust him with the safety of my beloved children....I was a neurotic basket case... rarely allowing my children out of my sight... This is what happened to me....it is a bit complicated, but then again, it HAD to be because at the time, I could not accept any *truth* outside of my twi understanding.

Allan, that was not the case with my friends. My two best friends in high school, one guy, and one a girl celebrated graduation by coming *out of the closet* I never had a clue that either of them were gay. They both dated members of the opposit sex throughout their teens....they both ended up experimenting with the same sex, and decided they preferred to be gay. There wasn`t any victimization with the girl...she had always been popular, tall, strong, very athletic, confident, and funny. I admired her greatly, even loved her dearly as my best friend...but that didn`t inspire me to become involved...(it was indicated that our friendship could be more) but it simply didn`t float my boat, we were still dear friends. The boy, became involved with an older man, In hindsight, I can understand that. Having a drunken father and wanting to feel a fathers love and aproval... this was the closest he could come....I do know that both were very happy and comfortable with their lifestyles....at the time I was getting involved with twi....they didn`t judge me because I was turning into a religious zealot, and I knew their gayness didn`t change the friends that I had known and loved for the last four years. After many years as a gay hair dresser, the guy ended up settling down with a woman and her daughter....go figure. I lost track of them after becoming involved with twi...what a shame.

I have no doubt that you are sorry you started this thread....but to consider it dumb because people simply did not say what you wanted, is silly. James, in you effort to usurp what is in reality God`s realm, God`s responsibility ...even as noble as your intentions may be....to attempt to *fix* someone...by proclaiming yourself as his representative to do so...you run the risk of possibly placing a wedge in a relationship between this gal and her creator....in so doing, possibly causing what could be irreperable harm in God`s own name, and isn`t that what twi is so damnably culpable for?...THAT is a far bigger abomination imo, than this poor little gals sexual orientation. Love God and Love (not fix) your neighbor....THESE are the two great commandments. P.S. In the future, rather than pray for us because you cannot appreciate the merrit of our opinions, (not that I don`t apreciate the sentiments, but gee, it sounds like you are asking God to try to *fix* us as well).... How about instead, applying those heartfelt concerns and prayers for yourself as well, in the hopes that God can continue to open the eyes of your understanding ...all of us becoming yet further enlightened? I have no doubt that you are a very nice guy with the best of intentions....but that doesn`t garauntee you can`t be mistaken in your perception of you responsibilties...we all once were.

Well I cannot possibly see how a loving and compassionate God would pick someone to be his representative who would so visciously hurt and destroy so many of the very people that God intended to reach. If this were the case....It would seem to clearly indicate that he didn`t give a damn about a lot of folks.

It sure doesn`t say much for a God or his message, if all he could find to represent him and teach it, was the likes of vpw. VPW gave God and Christianity a great big black eye in my opinion....when he endulged in more evil, found more ways to justify the sating of his lusts, was more relentless in his destruction of people than the vilest of unbelievers.... Geeze with a God and a minister like that...who`s afraid of Satan?

Understood Samurai, I am still amazed at the way certain phrases and terms can cause reactions way out of proportion than the situation warrents. Welcome, your avatar looks just like George Aar....lol. That is why the confusion.

Absolutely wonderfull to hear bro speed. It sounds as if she is doing very very well indeed.....to have survived surgery with so little debilitation is outstanding! How very difficult to not have been ale to be with and support her in her time of need. I am sorry :-(

I hear of miracles.... How about coming back to life in the hospital morgue after being declared dead from cancer? The lady I knew said that while she was dead...she had a meeting with a delegation of beings...she called them *the board* According to her....not only was it decided that she would be sent back....but they gave her a diet to follow to cure the cancer when she returned as well. When she came back she found that she had been placed in the morgue, and ...the only thing that she could move was her big toe....so she scratched the underside of the sheet she was covered with untill someone took notice. She then beat the cancer and lived for many decades. I asked friends after her 2nd death (when she was in her 80s) if they could remember any of the ingrediants of the diet.....and was told that they were unsure but seemed to remember that blue berries played a big part.... Low and behold a few weeks later scientists make the starteling announcement that wild blue berries do indeed have an astonishing amounbt of antioxidant in them.... How would this gal have know this almost 40 years ago when she utilized them in her recovery or her family members and minister know at the time of relating the information to me? I know that I had difficulty ( I flat out couldn`t believe it lol) with this account when it was first related because it didn`t fit with my understanding aquired in twi....maybe it will be unaceptable to some because it doesn`t follow twi formula for believing or that the dead being not alive....but it happened and there are many unimpeachable witnesses ...her ministers, her now grown children.....she herself was an outstanding christian of strength and character. I don`t know why we don`t hear of more .... or why my friend was sent back....maybe we just cannort acceprt them if they don`t happen according to thr rules we learned to expect from twi. In this case it doesn`t seem to have much to do with individual believing or prayers though.

I thought you question was much funnier. If asked with just the right amount of incredulity in your voice and disbelief written all over your face .... (that ANYONE could be naieve enough to still be bogged down in that goofey little group)....just pause there for a moment in open mouthed disbelief ...and then shaking your head in gentle disbelief...softly murmer your most heartfelt apology....lol It would undoubtedly sting to know that NOBODY takes these folks seriously anymore....lol