rascal

Darn it sea...are you writing my story?? I too only had one parent as well ...one who only took notice of me when it was time to scream and tell me what a dumb sh!t I was.... I remember when the tc`s began treating me that way....shiver...there was literally NOTHING that I wouldn`t do to prove my loyalty and commitment to God. What a$$ holes to manipulate us into untenable situations.....utilizing the fear of dissapointing God as their weapon of intimidation. You experience that initial love, warmth and acceptance....then it is used as a carrot for the next decade to get you to participate and preform..... I HATE them.

I can agree with you Dave.... I don`t have a problem with that.... What I have trouble with is with dogmatic rules of the judean culture of 2000 + years ago being applied to me...saying I shouldn`t cut my hair or must remain silent in the church...etc....at times I find that can be as outdated to me as animal sacrifices.... I agree that it contains a great deal of information capable of pointing us in the right direction...I just have trouble seeing it as the end all be all of Godliness.

I suppose Sami.... But that isn`t what we were told while we financially contributed and donated our skills and time to construct all of the buildings, the maintenance, the upkeep for decades. VPW told us every year at the roa that hq belonged to US the believers, and that we would *always be welcome at the way* We were encouraged to visit, and ANY time we visited we were welcomed, fed a meal, treated like visiting royalty.....they recognized us, sang to us, prayed for us if we needed.....we were even offered free lodging for the nite. I do not think you can understand how for decades we contributed financially and physically to hq and the upkeep ..... believing vp, that hq truly belonged to us....I don`t think he ever envisioned a time where folks were going to be forbidden access except by special permission. As young as you are, I do not think that you can comprehend the enormity of the betrayal of having our lifes efforts confiscated...and our acess denied. The people that are in charge are not the ones who contibuted to that place....it was stolen from the folks who`s labor and money it was built with. We are not allowed to come to a sns in the auditorium that our contributions built PERIOD....We are not allowed to stroll the grounds that our contributions paid for....nor enter the buildings that were built with the money we sent in..... It was NEVER supposed to be *private property* to only be enjoyed by a select few. I am very glad that your visit was enjoyable, I am glad that twi allowed you a chance to visit. I have to tell you though, that I work in a cemetary....and the folks here are allowed to visit their loved one whenever they like, nobody has to fill out forms or give prior notice.....that was how it was intended to be when folks first opted for twi to be the final resting spot for their loved ones. What if the owners sell this property...legally they can.....what if the buyers try to act as twi...requiring prior notice ...signing in private escort etc?.....there would be outrage .... legally the owners DO have this right Sami, we always believed that we would be allowed to visit our loved ones when we returned to hq....we believed that we would be allowed access to the fountain to pay our respects to the founders.....we went there every year for roa....it seemed like a very good idea at the time since we moved so often ....hq was the one place we all called home. Private property though it now may be..... and though they have the legal right to allow or deny access........ this does not make it in any way ethically or morally right, nor does it negate the promises made to us by vp that twi no longer choses to honor. I am glad that you were allowed access....don`t get me wrong, but that does not honor the intent or promise made to tens of thousands of other good hearted generous people over the decades.

I might add that being burned by twi, there is a real temptation to withhold goodness, to view everyone from a jaundiced pov....everyone as having an agenda or being a loser....everyone is trying to steal from me...I must protect myself ans screw everybody else.... If I give in to this mentality.....it means that twi/darkness is stealing yet again...I have allowed the betrayal to poisone my soul ... association in twi will have stopped yet another from bringing a little bit of light and goodness into this world.l....... I refuse to allow this to be taken from me...

Allan your assumptions about WHY folks give is dead wrong.... Though it may be true for some....the vast majority of the rest of us, see it as a way to lighten the burden of one another.....we realise that God has no hands but ours.....we know that we do for each other on this planet because it makes our little corner a nicer place to be......we trust that people will see God`s love and handy work when we supply a need .......they realise that God cares for them personally enough to to answere prayers...cares enough to supply their needs......and when we recieve a gift, an unexpected answere...it reafirms our trust in him to supply. For you to despise something as beautifull and pure as our giving, to view it cynically as something we do to *feel better* shows a darkness of soul.... It comes under the heading of love God and love your neighbor....it`s something you just DO as a genuine spirit filled Christian.

THAT was beautifull Jet..... I think that you are absolutely correct.

Excellent wwjl...it will be great to see you....and meet your friend! I want to figure out a way to locate each other....as the last time I went to a weenie roast and ask the desk which cabin to find sudo or oakspear or herbal....was met with blank stares from the desk folks. Since we are not all familiar with each other....I will be sure that the desk knows where *rascal`s* camp site is....the gal on the phone said that she thought there would be some flexibility since I told her I wanted to be close to all of you...but couldn`t give her the proper names the cabins were rented under roflmao Yeah ...um see I have these friends staying in cabins.... Well under what name?...I er um...am not sure....Oh?...and you say these are *friends*of yours?? Well um...yeah...I uh just don`t know their REAL names.....roflmao

As far as the bible being *THE* word of God....a retired methodist minister neighbor of mine has a very interesting take on it. He believes the bible to be a fairly accurate book concerning how God delt with one particular group of people at a particular time in history. A great insight into God and spirituality..... but he in no way sees God limited to the particular manner that he interacted with the isrealites of 2000 + years ago.....a one size fits all throughout the ages doctine.........but rather a flexible God who is willing to work how and where, whithin the frame work that we will allow him access into our lives..... As a mom I understand this...being flexible to each childs needs, applying the best system to educate and inspire each child to achieve their best. One side does not fit all...and it would be wrong for me to insist that child # 4 fit into the mold that worked for child # 1. I don`t think twi had it right in their one size fits all of mankind ministry. Oak, you are correct, as I understand it.....leaders got together and decided which letters and epistles that they liked and best fit with their theology....and threw out the rest...some sects that addheared to a particular desciples writings were persecuted to the point of extinction.....there were many many manuscripts of deciples and apostles that were disregarded because they didn`t support the position that the leaders wanted ..... I myself, am trying to train myself to rather than looking at religious lables.....look instead to see if folks are applying the two great commandments that Jesus emphasized....The bible says that fruit of the spirit is another good indicator of recognizing spiritually like minded folks as well...no matter what brand or flavor one seems to find works for them.

What do I call you guys? (since mo already took my answere hee he) Why I suppose I think of you all as fellow travelers. We all embarked upon the same adventure.... some started sooner, some stopped to rest along the way....some have been sprinting since they began....the point is....we are at different stages of our journey is all. There are many different paths or routs that we can take, some of us pause longer than others at the places that we enjoy... I see you as having stopped at an area to rest and have then chosen to go no further with the tour......convinced that there is nothing better because someone told you that was the case......you then act like you are REALLY mad at everyone else for not stopping and staying right there with you in an area that was found untenable.... You guys are yelling come back come back....there is nothing better...it is dangerous out there....this is the only safe place ....and we are shouting back...no it is better up ahead....the streams are lovely, the woods are beautifull....the mountains glorious.......some have continued the adventure, twi being but one of many places we stopped and visited.....eventually moving along when it proved to be unpleasant Those of us who found that particular path unsavory... in the future attempt to avoid paths that might possibly lead to such entrapments in the future...maybe even going so far as to post a warning sign or two along the way for the unsuspecting travelers that may come along later. Whether we linger or whether we continue, I think that the trick is to enjoy the journey....

The *problem* is ignorant propaganda concerning womens health issues being applicable to their sexual orientation. I am not aware of a single health issue that lesbian women have that their heterosexual counterparts do not incur as well. Unfortunatly STD`s are an equal opportunity infection.... they are generally aquired when indulging in promiscuous, unprotected sex.....regardless of your gender or preference. Unwanted pregnancy, abortions and the health risks incurred in those situations, now that isn`t an issue that lesbians generally have to face....this is a problem generally to be associated with heterosexaul behavior.

I`d say that a lack of respect or passing of judgement on who what and where God has wrought his work for in an individual could be a lingering sign of cultic belief as well. Biblically, the only way to identify a spiritualy healthy group or individual is to look past the lable and examine the fruit of the spirit manifested.

Mo has paid the price to be here and in NO way deserves your disrespect allan.. Folks have treated you with the same calibur of decency while you vomited the judgemental poison of twi dogma all over the people here. People generally have no respect for bullies, even if by some wild stretch of the imagination that you were right in your opinion....

Naw, there are a few of you guys allan, but I don`t take it personally any more, for it simply doesn`t matter to me WHAT you guys see when viewing my thoughts and opinions through the distortion of twi dogma. God knows who and what each and every one of us here is without your silly lables and accusations....and who has agendas and what the agendas are. Why not take a look at the benefit of what you yourself chose to post ... and what you bring to the table of benefit before casting aspersions and accusations at others..... Your posts give you the appearance of someone who is constantly frothing at the mouth in their frenzied desire to rabidly attack and hurt.....no problem, that is who and what you have allowed yourself to become .... ...If there is more to you than that, or if you have something of merit to contribute ...then do so......otherwise your attitude and nastinesse gives the appearance of a striking example of what the end result of strict adherance to twi training and dogma.... Oh, n you`d better read up on what Mike believes BEFORE jumping in and defending the rediculous belief system that he is attempting to foist off on folks here....vpw ...the old scoundrel himself would be spinning in his grave if he had ANY idea of the blasphemy (idolotrous swill to borrow a phrase) that mike spouts in his name....I imagine that you will feel pretty stupid.

And the man whom you STILL accept as having spoken the *truth* from his mouth....he wasn`t an abomination, a perversion when he was drugging and raping our sisters???? And his HAND PICKED successor...gee whizz...was he not a perversion for regularly DEMANDING to be sexually fullfilled by TWO young corpes women at the same time????? Common allan just LOOK at who the hypocrits and sinners WE were willing to trust.. Both of these men marked and avoided unwilling young women from the ministry when denied....cutting them off from friends and family...and what they understood to be the word and body of christ.....crushing them as thoroughly as possible. You have no problems accepting *truth* from the lips of these men who blashpemed God ...destroyed those to whom they were given to minister.... utilizing their position of power and authority in God to require that which wasn`t theres??? You have no problem believing what proceeded out of their lips because THEIR particular sins in your opinion weren`t as *spiritual*???? I guess that their sin simply wasn`t as heinous because they were hetero.... <_<

Thank you dear Hawk, as legendary as your snipe hunts are....I do not think I could handle the stress this year....lol I am so pleased that you can make it, Your camping/cooking gear is really nice and makes meal prep much easier. I have reserved a full hook up rv sight but am hoping for some flexibility when I arrive so that we campers can be close. What a great time this will be.

Belle, how many people in a twi fellowship have the prosperity in their lives to BUY a car such as your own to wreck in the first place? I`d say that you having survived the accident was plenty of proof that God IS still protecting you :-) THAT is how I would relate things to ex....*Whew honey......it`s a good thing that twi was WRONG about the adversary being able to take me out ...or I`d a been a goner* :lol:

Damned glad that you and your pet made it out safe ok....thanks for letting us know! I would guess that rita threw a real monkey wrench into the insurance settlements time line..... You were real smart to leave when you did..... do you have any home to return to? You could always utilize this time to tour the country ...stoppin and visiting gspotters along the way :-) Thanks for the heads up we have been worried about you.

Awwww (((((Sudo))) I am so sorry. I know how dissapointing it is when our kiddoes let us down. You could ALWAYS threaten to torture her with a weekend with Good ole Dad at the weenie roast...muahahahahaha a fate worse than death....lol Without your presence, undoubtedly it will be a subdued affair.....sigh

Dear Wafer not....I am timidly raising my hand as one of those whom have inadvertantly dented someones car.... it is not always a case of inconsideration however....sometimes it is (as in my case) a situation where an exhuberant overexcited child oppened their door from the inside and it got away from them...smacking the car next to us to my horror. Fortunatly the driver was still there while I berated my children and impressed upon them the damage that they had caused, and what the probable consequences of their actions were (ie a BIG bill for their father for the cost of repainting the car) ...my children in tears apologising profusely to the owner of the car........as annoyed as the other driver was...she forgave them...i asked how to make restitution.....this sweet heart of a woman at first dismissed it (though I could tell that it really had bothered her)....but in a stroke of genius...offered to let the children pay for her pizza (we were both waiting for our orders) The kids had to pool all of their cash and even borrow some from mom....(to be later worked off at home). I was so thankfull that as annoyed as this woman was...(and rightly so), that she handled it just right....allowing my kids to learn a very valuable lesson on accountability and restitution, and though it didn`t pay for the damage to her car....the money that the children had to give was a large amount for them....they felt much better as well. I am so very sorry that your nice car has been damaged..... it is a shame that folks are so careless.... and not honest enough to leave a note and number,

Your post wingnut. reminds me of the people that I have met through the years that are loving, generous souls...intellegent and funny.......I watched in horror over the period of a year as they returned to activities and *fellowship* from different offshoots at how they seem to change.....(I am not talking about everyone or all offshoots) It always seems to follow the same pattern though...... Incrimenatlly they become intollerant ...slowly, the arrogance begins to rear it`s ugly head....eventually followed be complete disdain for any who eshew twi teachings. The people that I have seen ....grew many times worse than the most abusive folks in twi. That seems to be a pitfall of hanging out with people who believe exclusively as you do....I believe that this can be a key factor in *way brain*...you are forever in the same place...never changing or helping each other to grow because you all believe that you already have the truth....it can be a real rut..

Hello Sea, WELCOME!! I started working at a Sambos when I was 16 lol. I worked for one in alabama, and two in ND. I loved those places.... At 17 I quit and started working in an Omelet Shoppe....that was where I was witnessed to. I attended fellowships and took classes for the same reasons that you described....but hey, this isn`t my story...lol Please continue, as you are very adpept at articulating how many of us became entangled with this group :)

Mike, it was an honest question, no ambush, no malice intended on my part. You are seeing and assigning evil where none was intended. To hell with it, I no longer have any desire to hear you answere anymore anyway.

If Peter Wade wrote what was later adapted into vp`s works, how does that fit in with Mike`s theory that vp`s written works are devine inspiration given from God to vp and is to be viewed as todays version of the bible?

I have an extra tent if you don`t mind camping Jard....then we can keep you n Joseph near US!!